This is mostly a feeling sorry for myself thread, but also partially a curiosity one. 

My Shenandoah team in Smith has been a series of crushing postseason disappointments that has been going ever since I got the team. I know this is just normal statistical variance, but it seems like my luck has always been consolidated with certain teams, and Shenandoah has been the worst (my Concord team in Naismith was the second worst--had a number of fantastic teams come up short there and never won a title). I never went into an NT at Greensboro expecting a title, and I won three of them. But at Shenandoah, I've gone in expecting a title probably five times and am still empty. In the last 11 seasons, I've finished in the top five six times and in the top three RPI six times (in all six of those cases, I finished #1 or #2 in either the polls or the final RPI), but no titles. 

Last night, things hit a new low, as my Shenandoah team fell in our third consecutive title game. I've looked through some of the national championship data, and I've seen two other coaches who have lost three straight titles at a school (stewdog at Georgia Tech and spasticity at Westminster), but I haven't seen anyone with more. Can anybody beat three straight title game losses? 

The Buffalo Bills.

I can't remember any other WIS team with more than 3 runner-up finishes.

The Oklahoma men's gymnastics team was runner-up 4 consecutive years.

Michigan's swimming/diving team was runner-up 6 times between 1942-47

Mt. Union's DIII football team was runner-up 3 straight times, and 6 years out of 8

I'm 0-3 in title games, 2 of them came back to back.  3 seasons in a row of it is really impressive, but probably more heartbreaking than proud for you.

Does 3 straight title game losses across worlds count? I'm shooting for my 4th straight when the Crum tourney starts.

Posted by jsajsa on 8/3/2015 10:41:00 AM (view original):
Does 3 straight title game losses across worlds count? I'm shooting for my 4th straight when the Crum tourney starts.

That is pretty insane. I play in several worlds, and I don't remember exactly how all the dates shook out, but I do know that about three months back, I lost title games in the same week at Shenandoah and at Erskine. I've also had title game losses at Mercyhurst and Concord within the last few months, but I don't think either of them were consecutive with the Shen/'skine double dip. 

But losing three straight at Shenandoah is extra crazy, because this is the team where I've been experimenting with FB/FCP (never used it in any other world) and a 6-0-6-0 class schedule (also never used in any other world). Which means that one of my title game losses came running FB/FCP with six freshmen and no seniors. Never thought in a million years I'd even make a title game with that setup. But then I really thought I'd win the following year with six seniors and no freshmen. Actually, the years with six seniors have consistently brought me teams that I thought were legit title threats, if not outright favorites, and I still haven't won a one. 

I know you're not complaining about the specific loss last night as much as your runner-up streak. While I feel for you there, you're still up on me for NTs 9-1, so sympathy is limited. :)

To be honest, I came into the season thinking I had the best team in the country. Definitely the best 4-player core. A couple bad losses where I utterly failed as a coach notwithstanding (against 2 perennial powerhouses and #1 seeds, no less), I think we showed that throughout the season. I don't mean to hijack your thread, just saying I think you might be a little spoiled by the insane amount of success you've had. You're definitely among the toughest and most successful coaches I've gone up against. 3 straight national title games is a crazy good accomplishment.

Posted by shoe3 on 8/3/2015 12:32:00 PM (view original):
I know you're not complaining about the specific loss last night as much as your runner-up streak. While I feel for you there, you're still up on me for NTs 9-1, so sympathy is limited. :)

To be honest, I came into the season thinking I had the best team in the country. Definitely the best 4-player core. A couple bad losses where I utterly failed as a coach notwithstanding (against 2 perennial powerhouses and #1 seeds, no less), I think we showed that throughout the season. I don't mean to hijack your thread, just saying I think you might be a little spoiled by the insane amount of success you've had. You're definitely among the toughest and most successful coaches I've gone up against. 3 straight national title games is a crazy good accomplishment.

Carlton certainly had a very good claim on best team in the country, and with the win last night, I'd say no one is going to really fight you on it. But I really thought Shenandoah had a pretty good claim as well. Returned all 12 players from a team that made the title game last season. Earned a 1-seed despite our two best scorers coming off the bench all season (in an attempt to develop depth for tournament play). Had leads of at least 19 points in every tournament game until the title. 

You definitely had the superior four-player core, but I probably would've given myself 55/45 on winning going into last night. And with less than two minutes left, Shenandoah was down 2 despite going a laughable 12/22 from the free throw line. Even 68% (below our average) would've given us a lead late, and then who knows what would happen. But whether it was 55/45 for me or for you, it's close either way, and little things like that make the difference in close games. 

Certainly not taking anything away from Carlton, who was obviously one of the handful of legit title contenders and who earned it on the court. Also not taking anything away from Centenary (who crushed us last year) or Redlands (who won another 50/50 title game two seasons ago--coming back from down five in the last minute to take the title game to OT. . . that one stung). It's just been a series of one thing after another at Shenandoah. We have a second round loss as a #1 seed to a team that we beat in the regular season. We have a Sweet Sixteen loss as a #1 seed to a team that we beat in the regular season. We have an elite eight loss as a #1 seed to a team that we crushed in preseason (without either running an experimental lineup, as I recall) who eventually won the whole thing. And we have two coin flip title losses. Certainly don't mean to say my overall WIS luck has been significantly below average, but at Shenandoah in particular, it's just disappointing to churn out so many top three teams and have nothing to show for it. 

you can check the longest streaks thread and probably see all the guys with 3+ title game appearances, but you'd have to check manually to see which of them never won it. i suspect there's not that many with 4+ where it would be that hard for you to check em (especially when half of those are probably well known all time great runs you can check off without looking)

Also, I do think this takes me to 1-5 in my last six title games and 9-10 in title games overall. So it's balancing out some previous good luck, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. 

i just eyeballed it, there's only a couple programs with 3+ per division, from knowing all those programs loosely i would say no nobody has ever lost 4 or more but you can verify yourself 100% off that info in the thread in <5 minutes i would guess. the only thing is teams with multiple runs only show once so you might want to check all the teams with 4+ (there are like 5) to make sure there wasn't another run in there that isn't counted.

Posted by gillispie1 on 8/3/2015 12:57:00 PM (view original):
i just eyeballed it, there's only a couple programs with 3+ per division, from knowing all those programs loosely i would say no nobody has ever lost 4 or more but you can verify yourself 100% off that info in the thread in <5 minutes i would guess. the only thing is teams with multiple runs only show once so you might want to check all the teams with 4+ (there are like 5) to make sure there wasn't another run in there that isn't counted.

Good call. I just checked, three is the all-time longest CG loser streak. I didn't check all of the people with exactly three to see whether there were any tied for longest all-time apart from me, stewdog, and spasticity, but there haven't been any longer. 

This isn't the longest streak, but it's unusual for D3.

In seasons #48 and #49, I won back-to-back titles with Letourneau. In both championship games, I defeated the same opponent, Rowan.