Wis Chat Summary: thought it would be good to summarize today's Wis Chat with seble:

these are the notes:

- the Favorite School factor may be tailored differently, less random, more maybe having to do with school prestige. Players may now contact their favorite schools on their own, rather than waiting for us owners.

- no changes planned for recruit generation.

- once new stuff is ready for testing, they will ask for volunteers to sign up to see how it works. Probably a couple of months at earliest.

- post-season cash will be eliminated as a recruiting resource, considered a part of the reason that there is such a power imbalance in Div-1.

- there will be a pile of money for scouting, and there will be a pool of recruiting resources. Recruiting resources will include attention points, campus visits, and home visits. There will be no replenishment of recruiting resources in Recruiting Period 2. There may be some adjustments after testing, including factoring in EE's.

- the testing period won't be ready for a couple of months.

- jobs process will not be addressed in this update.

- recruiting has potential for great improvement so they are moving on this first.

- HD has limited marketing budget, but will try to promote after this update.

- leaning towards new coaches to a world not participating in second recruiting period. Existing coaches already in world who change jobs can recruit in second recruiting period.

- "drop downs" will still exist, but "pull downs" will be eliminated. Put enough effort into guys and eventually they may drop down.

- prestige will still be a part of recruiting, but the logic of who a recruit signs with may change somewhat (won't just necessarily be whoever dumps a truckload of money on a guy).

- recruit decision logic will be improved and more sophisticated, so non elite schools will actually occasionally have a chance at elite players or at least a fighting chance.

- not sure about transfers, as far as quitting teams that don't follow thru on promises. Also, not sure if they would now need to sit a year like in real life. May just make them signable in recruiting period 2.

- there should be enough quality available in the second recruiting period to allow EE coaches to re-stock quality.

- will not add major artificial "players ratings boosts" to help non Big-6 schools. Instead new recruiting logic should allow elite guys to go to mid or lower schools.

- player preference based on conference strength is still up in the air.

- if you haven't scouted a recruit, then you can't see any ratings info. Also, you won't be able to see another teams' recruiting information by clicking on their team and recruiting tab... instead, if you scout a guy then it would show what team he is considering.

- if the only reason people play in strong human-filled conferences is for the money, then it's possible that those conferences will thin out.

- no changes in baseline prestige.

- goal is to allow any Div-1 school to at least have some sort of chance to advance deep in the NT.

- total facelift to the game, making it more mobile friendly. But not too many layout tweaks. News blurbs will not be updated.

- will look to not harm teams with EE's and will adjust accordingly, maybe players declare earlier in the season.

- if a recruit is visible to you, then there will be some indication of what schools are pursuing him..

- got ideas from real life recruiting, plus looked at other games.

- recruiting resources will not carry over to next season.

- no postseason cash will level playing fields in Div-2 and Div-3.

- not worried about someone cheating the system.

- these changes are intended to make the game more fun on all three levels.

- jobs process will be looked at once these changes are made.

- no immediate conference realignment, but always a possibility.

- no immediate engine changes, but would like to add more defensive features.

- SimAi's at some point will get better recruiting and practice minutes.

- may increase recruiting cycles to 6 hours or whatever. Recruiting actions won't be as cycle-based, so people won't have to recruit every 3 hours.

After reading through everything and thinking about it, I like the updates.

Also, stewdog had an informative post yesterday on his current experience at Georgia Tech (incidentally, my wife's alma mater). He has boatloads of money and boatloads of prestige, and owns almost the entire southeast. He actually pulls back on the reins at times because he just cruises through each season, and just picks up any player he wants.

He ends recruiting every year with over $100k in the bank! If postseason cash is eliminated, he still retains his A+ prestige, and still has many recruiting advantages. He's still in a conference whose teams have excellent baseline prestige, meaning each team will be above average. Anyway, something to consider.

Thanks for the summary npb. I haven't had time to review the actual dev. chat so I appreciate this.

I certainly don't mind these updates. Some things I like, some things I don't like, but I love HD so much that I'll never quit. I'll adjust to these changes. To me, some of these changes sound like they'll make the game more fun; bring 'em on. I'd be willing to volunteer to try out the changes before they're implemented.

I agree with those who would like to see changes made in the hiring/firing process and job logic. Nice to see that conference realignment hasn't been ruled out completely.

Posted by npb7768 on 9/17/2015 11:14:00 PM (view original):
Also, stewdog had an informative post yesterday on his current experience at Georgia Tech (incidentally, my wife's alma mater). He has boatloads of money and boatloads of prestige, and owns almost the entire southeast. He actually pulls back on the reins at times because he just cruises through each season, and just picks up any player he wants.

He ends recruiting every year with over $100k in the bank! If postseason cash is eliminated, he still retains his A+ prestige, and still has many recruiting advantages. He's still in a conference whose teams have excellent baseline prestige, meaning each team will be above average. Anyway, something to consider.

Read the post and you will see how I got there.
It's because of location, location, location. I was smart. The sec was down. And I have taken advantage.we need to balance the advantages I have.., like I stated repeatedly. Read it, but don't simplify the bottom line and offer a stupid solution. I offered some excellent solutions that are much more realistic than communism. Than punishing success. That doesn't work long term.
Duke, unc, wake, nc st will all die if there's no conference tourney money (lots of talent in a close space... No financial incentive to stay? Tough games throughout the year with no incentive to recruit near humans?). The horizon conference with 10 sims will be awesome! That's realistic.

We should expect mid majors to have lower numbers of tourney advancement becuase of the high number of sims in those conferences. Further, the recruit generation and scouting process does not allow for hidden gems, late bloomers, etc. this must be fixed.
And if GT wasn't so protected by the 360 barrier, we'd fade back to the pack... As it is, I get every great recruit to the west and northwest and leave North Carolina, South Carolina, and VA alone. Why? Milage. The big 12 beasts can't reach me w recruiting milage and the ACC beasts can't bc they're too Far East.

Location is everything.
Is part of the location issue the fact that ACC, big east, etc get more cash? You bet. Just like in real life.
But the major part is Texas, Kansas, Illinois, ucla, uconn, Syracuse and many great ACC schools can't reach me... And there aren't many hidden gems to build up a B school like in real life.

So the solution is to reward mediocrity? Congratulations, you have a solution that will hurt successful teams.
If that's your goal, you've accomplished it. Congrats.

But a better solution would be to fix the actual issues... Recruit generation, scouting, and Milage recruiting especially top 100 national recruits, all like in real life. Ucla, Kansas, and uconn fight each other in real life for top recruits. That's what we want.

But if you want a superficial understanding and are more interested in hurting success than fixing real issues, you've got it. Congrats. You've now made the game much less close to real life and destroyed the ACC, Big 12, big east, etc. because you were LAZY AND SUPERFICIAL and didn't want to take the Time to really learn and fix real issues.

Posted by stewdog on 9/18/2015 12:45:00 AM (view original):

Posted by npb7768 on 9/17/2015 11:14:00 PM (view original):
Also, stewdog had an informative post yesterday on his current experience at Georgia Tech (incidentally, my wife's alma mater). He has boatloads of money and boatloads of prestige, and owns almost the entire southeast. He actually pulls back on the reins at times because he just cruises through each season, and just picks up any player he wants.

He ends recruiting every year with over $100k in the bank! If postseason cash is eliminated, he still retains his A+ prestige, and still has many recruiting advantages. He's still in a conference whose teams have excellent baseline prestige, meaning each team will be above average. Anyway, something to consider.

Read the post and you will see how I got there.
It's because of location, location, location. I was smart. The sec was down. And I have taken advantage.we need to balance the advantages I have.., like I stated repeatedly. Read it, but don't simplify the bottom line and offer a stupid solution. I offered some excellent solutions that are much more realistic than communism. Than punishing success. That doesn't work long term.
Duke, unc, wake, nc st will all die if there's no conference tourney money (lots of talent in a close space... No financial incentive to stay? Tough games throughout the year with no incentive to recruit near humans?). The horizon conference with 10 sims will be awesome! That's realistic.

We should expect mid majors to have lower numbers of tourney advancement becuase of the high number of sims in those conferences. Further, the recruit generation and scouting process does not allow for hidden gems, late bloomers, etc. this must be fixed.
And if GT wasn't so protected by the 360 barrier, we'd fade back to the pack... As it is, I get every great recruit to the west and northwest and leave North Carolina, South Carolina, and VA alone. Why? Milage. The big 12 beasts can't reach me w recruiting milage and the ACC beasts can't bc they're too Far East.

Location is everything.
Is part of the location issue the fact that ACC, big east, etc get more cash? You bet. Just like in real life.
But the major part is Texas, Kansas, Illinois, ucla, uconn, Syracuse and many great ACC schools can't reach me... And there aren't many hidden gems to build up a B school like in real life.

So the solution is to reward mediocrity? Congratulations, you have a solution that will hurt successful teams.
If that's your goal, you've accomplished it. Congrats.

But a better solution would be to fix the actual issues... Recruit generation, scouting, and Milage recruiting especially top 100 national recruits, all like in real life. Ucla, Kansas, and uconn fight each other in real life for top recruits. That's what we want.

But if you want a superficial understanding and are more interested in hurting success than fixing real issues, you've got it. Congrats. You've now made the game much less close to real life and destroyed the ACC, Big 12, big east, etc. because you were LAZY AND SUPERFICIAL and didn't want to take the Time to really learn and fix real issues.

this is pretty true. GT is not the rule, they are the exception (and very well done on the first ever d1 4-peat stewdog!!). the real problem in d1, for mid majors and low-mid BCS schools, is not the rare GTs of the world - its that recruit generation, among other factors stew lists, create such a gap between the haves and the have-nots. this is widespread. now, the problem to the championship teams of the game, is the GTs of the game :) location is way too meaningful in the extent of dominance in d1, at the extremely high level. but to most folks, thats not an issue, its only the folks competing for the best programs in the game or best runs of all time, where you really get upset about how much location and situation makes a difference in today's game. count me among those folks. i would like to see that fixed, but i don't think that should be the priority, because it affects a smaller set. the problems inherent in d1 that lead to the incredible dominance of the haves over the have nots, affect all d1 coaches. those are the problems we should be focused on (and not coincidentally, will do a lot to limit the massive variance in the impact of location/situation with respect to extreme d1 dominance). even with a great location/situation, that run at GT is incredible, not taking away from that - most if not all great runs took place in favorable conditions, mine certainly included... just saying, GT should NOT be the poster child for these changes. the # of mid majors in the sweet 16 should be.

wait - you cant see all the recruits a school is on? seriously? that is... crazy...

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/18/2015 12:56:00 AM (view original):
wait - you cant see all the recruits a school is on? seriously? that is... crazy...

I would think that would eliminate players like aejones having his recruits targeted by conspiring conference-mates.

Posted by npb7768 on 9/18/2015 1:02:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/18/2015 12:56:00 AM (view original):
wait - you cant see all the recruits a school is on? seriously? that is... crazy...

I would think that would eliminate players like aejones having his recruits targeted by conspiring conference-mates.

did we find out who it was?  i thought we never did

Posted by the0nlyis on 9/18/2015 1:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by npb7768 on 9/18/2015 1:02:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/18/2015 12:56:00 AM (view original):
wait - you cant see all the recruits a school is on? seriously? that is... crazy...

I would think that would eliminate players like aejones having his recruits targeted by conspiring conference-mates.

did we find out who it was?  i thought we never did

I don't know who targeted aejones, but from what he said, the guys specifically looked at who he was recruiting and tag-teamed him.

Posted by stewdog on 9/18/2015 12:45:00 AM (view original):

Posted by npb7768 on 9/17/2015 11:14:00 PM (view original):
Also, stewdog had an informative post yesterday on his current experience at Georgia Tech (incidentally, my wife's alma mater). He has boatloads of money and boatloads of prestige, and owns almost the entire southeast. He actually pulls back on the reins at times because he just cruises through each season, and just picks up any player he wants.

He ends recruiting every year with over $100k in the bank! If postseason cash is eliminated, he still retains his A+ prestige, and still has many recruiting advantages. He's still in a conference whose teams have excellent baseline prestige, meaning each team will be above average. Anyway, something to consider.

Read the post and you will see how I got there.
It's because of location, location, location. I was smart. The sec was down. And I have taken advantage.we need to balance the advantages I have.., like I stated repeatedly. Read it, but don't simplify the bottom line and offer a stupid solution. I offered some excellent solutions that are much more realistic than communism. Than punishing success. That doesn't work long term.
Duke, unc, wake, nc st will all die if there's no conference tourney money (lots of talent in a close space... No financial incentive to stay? Tough games throughout the year with no incentive to recruit near humans?). The horizon conference with 10 sims will be awesome! That's realistic.

We should expect mid majors to have lower numbers of tourney advancement becuase of the high number of sims in those conferences. Further, the recruit generation and scouting process does not allow for hidden gems, late bloomers, etc. this must be fixed.
And if GT wasn't so protected by the 360 barrier, we'd fade back to the pack... As it is, I get every great recruit to the west and northwest and leave North Carolina, South Carolina, and VA alone. Why? Milage. The big 12 beasts can't reach me w recruiting milage and the ACC beasts can't bc they're too Far East.

Location is everything.
Is part of the location issue the fact that ACC, big east, etc get more cash? You bet. Just like in real life.
But the major part is Texas, Kansas, Illinois, ucla, uconn, Syracuse and many great ACC schools can't reach me... And there aren't many hidden gems to build up a B school like in real life.

So the solution is to reward mediocrity? Congratulations, you have a solution that will hurt successful teams.
If that's your goal, you've accomplished it. Congrats.

But a better solution would be to fix the actual issues... Recruit generation, scouting, and Milage recruiting especially top 100 national recruits, all like in real life. Ucla, Kansas, and uconn fight each other in real life for top recruits. That's what we want.

But if you want a superficial understanding and are more interested in hurting success than fixing real issues, you've got it. Congrats. You've now made the game much less close to real life and destroyed the ACC, Big 12, big east, etc. because you were LAZY AND SUPERFICIAL and didn't want to take the Time to really learn and fix real issues.

My mistake was not arriving in "HD Land" 75 seasons ago, grabbing a sweetheart Big-6 job, banking cash, running interference for my conference mates, and putting it on autopilot. But I'm the lazy, superficial communist.

Posted by npb7768 on 9/18/2015 1:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by stewdog on 9/18/2015 12:45:00 AM (view original):

Posted by npb7768 on 9/17/2015 11:14:00 PM (view original):
Also, stewdog had an informative post yesterday on his current experience at Georgia Tech (incidentally, my wife's alma mater). He has boatloads of money and boatloads of prestige, and owns almost the entire southeast. He actually pulls back on the reins at times because he just cruises through each season, and just picks up any player he wants.

He ends recruiting every year with over $100k in the bank! If postseason cash is eliminated, he still retains his A+ prestige, and still has many recruiting advantages. He's still in a conference whose teams have excellent baseline prestige, meaning each team will be above average. Anyway, something to consider.

Read the post and you will see how I got there.
It's because of location, location, location. I was smart. The sec was down. And I have taken advantage.we need to balance the advantages I have.., like I stated repeatedly. Read it, but don't simplify the bottom line and offer a stupid solution. I offered some excellent solutions that are much more realistic than communism. Than punishing success. That doesn't work long term.
Duke, unc, wake, nc st will all die if there's no conference tourney money (lots of talent in a close space... No financial incentive to stay? Tough games throughout the year with no incentive to recruit near humans?). The horizon conference with 10 sims will be awesome! That's realistic.

We should expect mid majors to have lower numbers of tourney advancement becuase of the high number of sims in those conferences. Further, the recruit generation and scouting process does not allow for hidden gems, late bloomers, etc. this must be fixed.
And if GT wasn't so protected by the 360 barrier, we'd fade back to the pack... As it is, I get every great recruit to the west and northwest and leave North Carolina, South Carolina, and VA alone. Why? Milage. The big 12 beasts can't reach me w recruiting milage and the ACC beasts can't bc they're too Far East.

Location is everything.
Is part of the location issue the fact that ACC, big east, etc get more cash? You bet. Just like in real life.
But the major part is Texas, Kansas, Illinois, ucla, uconn, Syracuse and many great ACC schools can't reach me... And there aren't many hidden gems to build up a B school like in real life.

So the solution is to reward mediocrity? Congratulations, you have a solution that will hurt successful teams.
If that's your goal, you've accomplished it. Congrats.

But a better solution would be to fix the actual issues... Recruit generation, scouting, and Milage recruiting especially top 100 national recruits, all like in real life. Ucla, Kansas, and uconn fight each other in real life for top recruits. That's what we want.

But if you want a superficial understanding and are more interested in hurting success than fixing real issues, you've got it. Congrats. You've now made the game much less close to real life and destroyed the ACC, Big 12, big east, etc. because you were LAZY AND SUPERFICIAL and didn't want to take the Time to really learn and fix real issues.

My mistake was not arriving in "HD Land" 75 seasons ago, grabbing a sweetheart Big-6 job, banking cash, running interference for my conference mates, and putting it on autopilot. But I'm the lazy, superficial communist.

yeah... i took most of his posts to be directed at seble, not really you personally. but i can see how you took it that way. i don't really agree with the tone, but his content is mostly spot on... and if you direct the "you" comments to seble, it fits decently well.

anyway, stew only picked up a d1 team in his GT world in season 31. everything was established, he had to fight a similar uphill battle. regardless, the reality is by now, you did not need to start 75 years ago. after 20 or so you've caught up, there's no advantage past there (except experience). maybe 30 seasons, tops. i can't stand the claim that you had to be there to make it, and because they were there first, thats why the good d1 coaches are good - not because they are actually good coaches. people said the same nonsense when i started, its bullcrap, it was then, and it is now (although, less so now). it is a struggle to get over the hump, but the guys who are over the hump now, almost universally got there by getting over that hump - not by getting there before there was a hump. low and mid d1 (including low and mid bcs) is too much of a struggle now - meaning superior coaching and recruiting doesn't have enough impact - but the way you put it is just flat out ridiculous.

This update already has the looks of a not well planned out disaster waiting to happen.  Kind of like the first time potential was rolled out, boy was THAT a nightmare.

Posted by npb7768 on 9/18/2015 1:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by stewdog on 9/18/2015 12:45:00 AM (view original):

Posted by npb7768 on 9/17/2015 11:14:00 PM (view original):
Also, stewdog had an informative post yesterday on his current experience at Georgia Tech (incidentally, my wife's alma mater). He has boatloads of money and boatloads of prestige, and owns almost the entire southeast. He actually pulls back on the reins at times because he just cruises through each season, and just picks up any player he wants.

He ends recruiting every year with over $100k in the bank! If postseason cash is eliminated, he still retains his A+ prestige, and still has many recruiting advantages. He's still in a conference whose teams have excellent baseline prestige, meaning each team will be above average. Anyway, something to consider.

Read the post and you will see how I got there.
It's because of location, location, location. I was smart. The sec was down. And I have taken advantage.we need to balance the advantages I have.., like I stated repeatedly. Read it, but don't simplify the bottom line and offer a stupid solution. I offered some excellent solutions that are much more realistic than communism. Than punishing success. That doesn't work long term.
Duke, unc, wake, nc st will all die if there's no conference tourney money (lots of talent in a close space... No financial incentive to stay? Tough games throughout the year with no incentive to recruit near humans?). The horizon conference with 10 sims will be awesome! That's realistic.

We should expect mid majors to have lower numbers of tourney advancement becuase of the high number of sims in those conferences. Further, the recruit generation and scouting process does not allow for hidden gems, late bloomers, etc. this must be fixed.
And if GT wasn't so protected by the 360 barrier, we'd fade back to the pack... As it is, I get every great recruit to the west and northwest and leave North Carolina, South Carolina, and VA alone. Why? Milage. The big 12 beasts can't reach me w recruiting milage and the ACC beasts can't bc they're too Far East.

Location is everything.
Is part of the location issue the fact that ACC, big east, etc get more cash? You bet. Just like in real life.
But the major part is Texas, Kansas, Illinois, ucla, uconn, Syracuse and many great ACC schools can't reach me... And there aren't many hidden gems to build up a B school like in real life.

So the solution is to reward mediocrity? Congratulations, you have a solution that will hurt successful teams.
If that's your goal, you've accomplished it. Congrats.

But a better solution would be to fix the actual issues... Recruit generation, scouting, and Milage recruiting especially top 100 national recruits, all like in real life. Ucla, Kansas, and uconn fight each other in real life for top recruits. That's what we want.

But if you want a superficial understanding and are more interested in hurting success than fixing real issues, you've got it. Congrats. You've now made the game much less close to real life and destroyed the ACC, Big 12, big east, etc. because you were LAZY AND SUPERFICIAL and didn't want to take the Time to really learn and fix real issues.

My mistake was not arriving in "HD Land" 75 seasons ago, grabbing a sweetheart Big-6 job, banking cash, running interference for my conference mates, and putting it on autopilot. But I'm the lazy, superficial communist.

Looks like someone may have misinterpreted Stewdog's intent regarding his write up of Georgia Tech.

My rant has nothing to do w you, npb... Unless you are making the changes. Quit taking things personally.

I didn't start in Iba until season 26 and got to GT in season 51, fyi. It took years to get competitive there and I have been among the elite for the last 20-25 seasons.