I'm not a programmer but I certainly think one could keep up with HBD.   The engine is in place.   It would just be tweaking and responding to tickets.   Of course, a massive engine failure changes the time required but that's an apocalypse situation.     WifS/FOX has to have licensing agreements for a lot of this stuff.   As an individual, you'd have to do away with "Yankee Stadium" and make it "New York Stadium" or something along those lines.
10/6/2015 2:04 PM
Contraction seems like the most mutually beneficial solution to the problem so many worlds are facing now.

The market for most worlds is fairly set at this point, after 20 or more seasons. Demand for some worlds can justify 32 teams -- but not all of them. A lot of the worlds lose 4-6 owners every season, sometimes fewer, occasionally more. You could therefore reasonably conclude demand for those worlds is about 28.

I understand paid customers sitting in idle worlds don't have much leverage, but the biggest risk for WiS is that those owners will discover they don't really miss HBD all that much.
10/6/2015 2:46 PM
I guess, if that's their biggest concern, it's not much to be concerned about.   I've had customers threaten to pull cheap accounts from me.  My response was not what they'd hoped to get.
10/6/2015 3:18 PM
Earlier in the thread, some folks argued that fox Should advertise more heavily. Then someone else pointed out that this might not be a great thing, as a flood of new players would play the first cheap season and then quit, thus ruining the existing world's for already-paying customers.

My solution: why not spend the time to promote SimLeague baseball instead? Those leagues are all one and done, so if someone plays once and quits, that is just $12 of sweet, sweet profit for FOX. But a fraction of those players will be hooked, and some of them will want to try HBD. By the time they get here, they're already the kind of person who likes to play online baseball games, so they'd be more likely (not guaranteed, but more likely) to stick around.
10/6/2015 6:23 PM
It is more likely they would sell WIS before they would just shut it down.  And, don't forget, the staff of programmers and customer support, etc., are working on all sim leagues, not just HBD.
10/6/2015 9:13 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/6/2015 1:17:00 PM (view original):
I'm not suggesting that they are considering pulling the plug.   Just that they're not making what plague suggested.   Or that HBD is all that profitable to anyone.   We like the game but it's not a big money-maker.   There's really no justifiable reason for them to run ads during the WS/playoffs.   Or even present some huge marketing campaign via flyers on car windows at the mall.    It's just not worth the expense.   Which is one reason I think "Lower the cost" and "give away teams" are horrible ideas.   Turning low profit into no profit is a poor business model. 

Truth is, it would be better for them, and us, if they sold the game to an individual.    I'd work pretty hard for 260k year running HBD. 
The logic and math is flawed. It's costing WIS about the same whether they have 1 or 100 worlds. Adding another world is probably all profit as the expense is tied to the game itself not tied to the amount of worlds running. All business have expenses. Revenue-expenses = Profit margin. WIS expense is not tied to selling individual items so a path of selling bulk is the most profitable path to take.

JC Penny had a marketing idea of lets not have sales or giveaways but lets just sell everything at a every day low price. It turned out to be a disaster and the CEO eventually was fired. Your successful business models  has sales and giveaways/deals that reward the customer and encourages the customer to return to their business on a future date and spend more money. My wife lives for Kohls 30% coupon that she gets twice a year, she then buys on sale and gets 30% on top of that, then she spends 50 dollars  so she can get her Kohls bucks which gets her coming back again. She gets what she believes is deals and Kohls gets her business.

Currently WIS model is to focus strictly on attracting new owners to the game and not rewarding current owners. In the modern world smart marketing finds ways to bring in cash, while at the same time rewarding customers for using their services by giving them rewards that will entice the customer  to come back again. I have suggested something along the lines of WIS bucks. Every time someone starts a new season they are given X amount of WIS bucks. WIS can then allow owners to use those bucks on worlds they are not currently playing. WIS can fluctuate how much it costs depending on how many openings. The more openings the less bucks to join. Getting the WIS bucks is tied to spending money on a owners current worlds. That is the core of almost every successful business model currently going on in the USA. Reward people for spending money on your services by enticing them to use your product again. You get a owner to join a new world, maybe he gets attached to the new world and spends money the following season, its happen many times with abandon teams.


FOX itself is huge, but a company like FOX is compartmentalized Where WIS has their own budget and they are probably accessed quarterly or annually for profitability directly and indirectly.

10/7/2015 2:48 AM (edited)
You're right.  Your math and logic are wrong.

32 x 24.99 = 799.68

We know everyone doesn't pay full price.   I but 4 packs and pay 22.50 per season.   So let's just split the difference.   23.75 x 32 = 760.    I won't get into introductory teams.   I also won't bother doing a full credit analysis but 1st/4th = $96.   Safe to say it's $110+.  Therefore, max profit is $650.    You're $8 per day estimate puts profit at $688.   Not possible.
10/7/2015 7:36 AM

As for the giveaway/join new world/stay forever part, most of us have maxed out on teams.   By my estimation, I have time for 3.5 worlds.   Because of this, I generally keep 4 teams.   I took on a 5th as a one season favor.    I see you have one.   Is that your max?   If not, do you not have two because of cost?

10/7/2015 8:31 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/7/2015 7:36:00 AM (view original):
You're right.  Your math and logic are wrong.

32 x 24.99 = 799.68

We know everyone doesn't pay full price.   I but 4 packs and pay 22.50 per season.   So let's just split the difference.   23.75 x 32 = 760.    I won't get into introductory teams.   I also won't bother doing a full credit analysis but 1st/4th = $96.   Safe to say it's $110+.  Therefore, max profit is $650.    You're $8 per day estimate puts profit at $688.   Not possible.
You missed the part where I said its probably closer to $7 a day because of free credits.
10/7/2015 10:49 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/7/2015 8:31:00 AM (view original):

As for the giveaway/join new world/stay forever part, most of us have maxed out on teams.   By my estimation, I have time for 3.5 worlds.   Because of this, I generally keep 4 teams.   I took on a 5th as a one season favor.    I see you have one.   Is that your max?   If not, do you not have two because of cost?

1 team is my max. It's not because of money as much as desire. I no longer have the desire to play multiple teams. That's just me.

I think people saying they are maxed out is for some people is the politically correct way of saying they don't want to join your/my world right now or maybe ever. I have seen  people say they are maxed out and then six months down the road they join another world.

Right now I think the biggest killer is league swapping. People that are considering taking on new teams are  sitting idle in their own league or they know that when the season ends they will be sitting idle in a league, they want their league to start so they attach I will join your league if someone in your league joins my league. If your not willing to swap leagues then you are at a handicap. To me this is a stage that is not sustainable and will lead HBD down a downward spiral.

10/7/2015 10:59 AM
OK, $602.    Now, I'll go a little deeper into credits.   Commish gets $5, 10 seasons owners get $10.    WS winner gets 5250 points which equates to just over $32($24 as I already counted $8).   I think LCS teams get $12(another $8 total) and WS loser gets $24(net $16).   Eight teams get a $1($8).

5 + 24 + 8 + 16 + 8 = 61.     $650 - $61 = $589.    That doesn't count any $10 credits or the fact that I'm positive most long-term owners buy 4 or 10 packs.   Not to mention to first time buyer price.

It's less than $7 per day, you're not accounting for ANY expenses and they're still losing money at $7.   
10/7/2015 11:00 AM
I think most people have a max number of teams they enjoy.
10/7/2015 11:03 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/7/2015 11:00:00 AM (view original):
OK, $602.    Now, I'll go a little deeper into credits.   Commish gets $5, 10 seasons owners get $10.    WS winner gets 5250 points which equates to just over $32($24 as I already counted $8).   I think LCS teams get $12(another $8 total) and WS loser gets $24(net $16).   Eight teams get a $1($8).

5 + 24 + 8 + 16 + 8 = 61.     $650 - $61 = $589.    That doesn't count any $10 credits or the fact that I'm positive most long-term owners buy 4 or 10 packs.   Not to mention to first time buyer price.

It's less than $7 per day, you're not accounting for ANY expenses and they're still losing money at $7.   
It doesn't matter if its 7 or 6 dollars a day, each extra league is almost all profit.. The expenses is in the game itself not the amount of leagues. It's not like they are selling shoes and they have a cost per shoe. They have a server that runs the games, the bulk of the cost is not associated to per item.
10/7/2015 11:03 AM
It actually does matter when you're making the argument you're making.    There is a point where it's just not worth it from a business standpoint.    You've been arguing "They need to do this, they need to do that."     Doing ANYTHING requires resources.   That takes away from profit.    By my estimation, they make $125-$150 a month each time a league completes.   From the standpoint of a company the size of FOX, that's peanuts. 

If they cared, they'd offer free teams to their FOX Sports employees just to get/keep worlds rolling.    Maybe a few would like it and keep re-upping with their free credits.   It would be a little, tiny benefit for them and add a few new owners to HBD.  
10/7/2015 11:21 AM
321 openings right now.

For Life has been waiting (21 to fill) since 8/28/14!

10/9/2015 7:39 AM
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