Also, I doubt many people would list Pujols as the GOAT at 1B, either, although he might actually have an argument.

Just for fun:

C - Bench (Dickey)
1B - Gehrig (Foxx)
2B - Hornsby (Morgan)
SS - A-Rod (Wagner)
3B - Schmidt (Jones)
LF - Williams (Bonds)
CF - Mantle (Cobb)
RF - Ruth (Robinson)
P - Martinez (Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove, Koufax, Clemens)

I would imagine the most controversial positions would be SS, 3B, and CF.  A lot of people might take exception to leaving Mays off a list of 2.  Personally, I judge more on peaks, and Mantle just hit higher highs.  Without the injuries (and the self-destructive behaviors) he might have been the GOAT at all positions.  What I really like about my list is that it has a fairly reasonable cross-section of baseball history.  I have a hard time listing any deadball guys first because the game was just so different from what we all recognize now, otherwise I might have Wagner listed at SS or Cobb in CF.  I think I'm pretty comfortable with Pedro over Walter Johnson either way, though.  Nobody ever hit higher highs as a pitcher than Pedro, not even Koufax.

Posted by dahsdebater on 1/19/2016 5:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/19/2016 3:45:00 PM (view original):
Care to list your GOAT at each position?   I can't imagine you get 100% agreement on them from the first 10 people to respond. 

I'm sure you're right.  No doubt about it.  But I bet if 10 randomly selected rational baseball fans were asked to do the same thing, none of them would list Miggy as the GOAT at 1B, much less as a hitter in general, which is what seemed to have been implied here.

Top 10 at each position or number 1?
C: Johnny Bench
1B: Lou Gehrig
2B: Rogers Hornsby
3B: Mike Schmidt
SS: Honus Wagner
LF: Barry Bonds
CF: Willie Mays
RF: Babe Ruth
SP: Walter Johnson
RP: Mariano Rivera

The only disagreement I can see we having is maybe Ted Williams over Barry Bonds in LF and Pedro Martinez over Walter Johnson at SP. Is there really any other GOAT's?

Posted by dahsdebater on 1/19/2016 5:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/19/2016 3:45:00 PM (view original):
Care to list your GOAT at each position?   I can't imagine you get 100% agreement on them from the first 10 people to respond. 

I'm sure you're right.  No doubt about it.  But I bet if 10 randomly selected rational baseball fans were asked to do the same thing, none of them would list Miggy as the GOAT at 1B, much less as a hitter in general, which is what seemed to have been implied here.

I don't disagree with your statement that no one playing now is near GOAT.   But you said it as there can be no question and I'm sure that's wrong.  Because GOAT is a pretty broad definition.    And, no, Miggy isn't on any knowledgeable baseball fans' list.

FWIW, I started thinking about a list and the only definite one I had was Ruth in RF.    Maybe you give Honus Wagner SS but that just seems like the "right" answer.   I'm not sure his career jumps out like Ruth's.     And Pujols isn't getting 1B over Gehrig in my book.

Well, I guess I should have read ahead before posting.

I guess neither of you think much of George Brett.

I'd find it impossible to argue against Bonds or Williams.

Mantle, Cobb, Mays would all be good choices.  

My dislike for ARod clouds my judgement at SS.

Hornsby/Morgan, I don't know.

I guess Bench but I'm sure I could argue Piazza even if he wasn't very good at defense.

I wouldn't even try at SP.

Posted by dahsdebater on 1/19/2016 5:57:00 PM (view original):
Just for fun:

C - Bench (Dickey)
1B - Gehrig (Foxx)
2B - Hornsby (Morgan)
SS - A-Rod (Wagner)
3B - Schmidt (Jones)
LF - Williams (Bonds)
CF - Mantle (Cobb)
RF - Ruth (Robinson)
P - Martinez (Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove, Koufax, Clemens)

I would imagine the most controversial positions would be SS, 3B, and CF.  A lot of people might take exception to leaving Mays off a list of 2.  Personally, I judge more on peaks, and Mantle just hit higher highs.  Without the injuries (and the self-destructive behaviors) he might have been the GOAT at all positions.  What I really like about my list is that it has a fairly reasonable cross-section of baseball history.  I have a hard time listing any deadball guys first because the game was just so different from what we all recognize now, otherwise I might have Wagner listed at SS or Cobb in CF.  I think I'm pretty comfortable with Pedro over Walter Johnson either way, though.  Nobody ever hit higher highs as a pitcher than Pedro, not even Koufax.

I like it.

I'd go Mays over Mantle and Clemens over Pedro but those are minor disagreements. I don't think your picks at SS and 3B are controversial at all. I think they are a couple of the easiest decisions. For me, anyway,

And I'd also probably go Bonds over Williams, but that's the hardest one (of the position players) and you can't really go wrong either way.

Posted by d_rock97 on 1/19/2016 2:51:00 PM (view original):
Difference between Tigers and Phillies.
1. Miguel Cabrera G.O.A.T.
2. Tigers infield is young (McCann, Iglesias, Castellanos, Miggy is the GOAT, Kinsler's contract will be up in 2 years)
3. Al Avila isn't Ruben Amaro, he will sell if the Tigers can't compete

Miguel Cabrera is basically Manny Ramirez. A great bat with nothing else to contribute.
Tigers infield is unimpressive.
The Tigers ain't selling **** with that 86 year old owner pining for a championship.

Posted by dahsdebater on 1/19/2016 5:57:00 PM (view original):
Just for fun:

C - Bench (Dickey)
1B - Gehrig (Foxx)
2B - Hornsby (Morgan)
SS - A-Rod (Wagner)
3B - Schmidt (Jones)
LF - Williams (Bonds)
CF - Mantle (Cobb)
RF - Ruth (Robinson)
P - Martinez (Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove, Koufax, Clemens)

I would imagine the most controversial positions would be SS, 3B, and CF.  A lot of people might take exception to leaving Mays off a list of 2.  Personally, I judge more on peaks, and Mantle just hit higher highs.  Without the injuries (and the self-destructive behaviors) he might have been the GOAT at all positions.  What I really like about my list is that it has a fairly reasonable cross-section of baseball history.  I have a hard time listing any deadball guys first because the game was just so different from what we all recognize now, otherwise I might have Wagner listed at SS or Cobb in CF.  I think I'm pretty comfortable with Pedro over Walter Johnson either way, though.  Nobody ever hit higher highs as a pitcher than Pedro, not even Koufax.

I might put Yogi Berra slightly over Bill Dickey behind Bench at C.

I'd also put George Brett slightly over Chipper Jones behind Schmidt at C.

Center field is tough with Mays, Cobb, Mantle and Griffey all in the mix.

It's also tough to leave Tom Seaver off the pitcher list.  Koufax had an awesome (but short) peak which offset the rest of an otherwise mediocre career, but Seaver had literally twice the career IP with comparable career stats.  It's also tough to ignore Christy Mathewson on that list.

Posted by sjpoker on 1/19/2016 7:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 1/19/2016 2:51:00 PM (view original):
Difference between Tigers and Phillies.
1. Miguel Cabrera G.O.A.T.
2. Tigers infield is young (McCann, Iglesias, Castellanos, Miggy is the GOAT, Kinsler's contract will be up in 2 years)
3. Al Avila isn't Ruben Amaro, he will sell if the Tigers can't compete

Miguel Cabrera is basically Manny Ramirez. A great bat with nothing else to contribute.
Tigers infield is unimpressive.
The Tigers ain't selling **** with that 86 year old owner pining for a championship.

Whaaaaat? Miggy has been an above average defensive 1st baseman the past couple years. And Iglesias is arguably the best SS in the AL not named Tulo. Iglesias has better range and fielding than Alcides Escobar and bats better than him. Now that Andrelton Simmons is on the Angels, it'll be hard to say who is better defensively, they both make Top 10 frequently. Castellanos has been very disappointing but he is 23 and he was a former 1st round draft pick so the potential is still there. He's been the only untouchable prospect the Tigers had in awhile, that should say something. Kinsler is a top 5 second baseman in the majors. Dee Gordon, Altuve, Cano, are all better and Brian Dozier makes a case. He is 33 though but he had arguably his best year of his career last year. The Tigers had no problem scoring runs, even with V-Mart and Miggy hurt and even after trading Cespedes. Their problem was a terrible rotation and the bullpen was worse than ever. Tigers have one of the better infields in the Majors and until yesterday, it was their outfield that was seen as a weakness

Hank Aaron finishes his career with 700 more total bases than the next guy and can't get even get a mention.    Bunch of RACISTS!!!!! up in here.

My initial instinct was to put Brett ahead of Chipper as well.  But in the end, it didn't make sense to me.  Neither was a particularly good defender.  Brett probably had a slightly better career.  But as I said in the initial post, when thinking about GOAT, you need some sustained success, but I'm most interested in peak performance.  Chipper in his peak is basically Brett in his peak with extra power.  They both hit for average very well, they both got on base a lot, but Chipper also hit 45 HRs in '99 and hit 30+ another 4 or 5 times.  Brett famously peaked at 30 HR.

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/19/2016 8:53:00 PM (view original):
Hank Aaron finishes his career with 700 more total bases than the next guy and can't get even get a mention.    Bunch of RACISTS!!!!! up in here.

I ALREADY PUT BLACK FELLAS IN THE 2ND SPOT AT BOTH COF POSITIONS.  PETE ROSE HAD A LOT MORE HITS THAN THESE GUYS, HE'S WHITE, AND HE GOT LEFT OFF!!!!!!!!

SEAVER

AARON

NO CAREER ACHIEVEMENT AWARDS!!!!