Posted by d_rock97 on 3/2/2016 6:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 3/2/2016 5:44:00 PM (view original):
The purpose of an offense is to score runs. I don't care what the team BA or OBP or OPS was. If 13 teams scored more runs, 13 teams had better offenses. Since we have no idea what will happen this season, we don't know what kind of offense they WILL have. Last year, they're offense was not very good.

Runs scored is not all on the offense. They were 13th or whatever due to bad base running and setting a new MLB record in GIDP. They're still the second best offense in the game. They just ran into some bad luck.

edit: they did not set a record for GIDP in a season. My bad, bad source

I took a quick look at what the Tigers did last year and it seemed impressive. By position, the WAR for most of the fielders seemed pretty good.

But if you look closer, they had holes. They struck out too much, and their walk rate was average. BABIP indicates a lot of luck. Hard hit percentage was meh. RISP? Horrible. So not sure how you think they were 'the best lineup in baseball'.

The funny thing is you keep telling us how the return of Cabrera and VMart along with the addition of Upton is gonna put your team over the top.

Problem is... they had the worst starting pitching in baseball last year. By a long shot. Relief wasn't much better. Your team added who? F-Rod, Mike Pelfrey, and Zimmerman? And lost Price? Don't see how there's gonna be a massive improvement there.

In fact when I look at the projected starters -

Justin Verlander - Probably an improvement
Jordan Zimmermann - If you're lucky he is as good as Price. Prob not.
Anibal Sanchez - On his way down
Daniel Norris - Young. Not sure what he will give.
Mike Pelfrey - horrible

All in all, the more I look at Detroit, the more your team actually resembles Detroit. Broke down. Aging. Nothing new on the horizon.

bad base running and grounding into DPs is part of the offense. Run scoring is offense. Whether a team has 4 hits and 1 run in an inning or 1 hit and 1 run in an inning, the run counts the same. Regardless of why they don't score the runs, a team that scores more runs has a better offense.

Posted by wylie715 on 3/2/2016 7:18:00 PM (view original):
bad base running and grounding into DPs is part of the offense. Run scoring is offense. Whether a team has 4 hits and 1 run in an inning or 1 hit and 1 run in an inning, the run counts the same. Regardless of why they don't score the runs, a team that scores more runs has a better offense.

Saying the Tigers had the best lineup last year is ridiculous.

Posted by sjpoker on 3/2/2016 7:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 3/2/2016 6:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 3/2/2016 5:44:00 PM (view original):
The purpose of an offense is to score runs. I don't care what the team BA or OBP or OPS was. If 13 teams scored more runs, 13 teams had better offenses. Since we have no idea what will happen this season, we don't know what kind of offense they WILL have. Last year, they're offense was not very good.

Runs scored is not all on the offense. They were 13th or whatever due to bad base running and setting a new MLB record in GIDP. They're still the second best offense in the game. They just ran into some bad luck.

edit: they did not set a record for GIDP in a season. My bad, bad source

I took a quick look at what the Tigers did last year and it seemed impressive. By position, the WAR for most of the fielders seemed pretty good.

But if you look closer, they had holes. They struck out too much, and their walk rate was average. BABIP indicates a lot of luck. Hard hit percentage was meh. RISP? Horrible. So not sure how you think they were 'the best lineup in baseball'.

The funny thing is you keep telling us how the return of Cabrera and VMart along with the addition of Upton is gonna put your team over the top.

Problem is... they had the worst starting pitching in baseball last year. By a long shot. Relief wasn't much better. Your team added who? F-Rod, Mike Pelfrey, and Zimmerman? And lost Price? Don't see how there's gonna be a massive improvement there.

In fact when I look at the projected starters -

Justin Verlander - Probably an improvement
Jordan Zimmermann - If you're lucky he is as good as Price. Prob not.
Anibal Sanchez - On his way down
Daniel Norris - Young. Not sure what he will give.
Mike Pelfrey - horrible

All in all, the more I look at Detroit, the more your team actually resembles Detroit. Broke down. Aging. Nothing new on the horizon.

No, I'm saying how the Tigers had the 2nd best offense and will still have the second best offense. The bullpen and not blowing every lead they get will put them over the top. Yes the Starting pitching downgraded a bit but holding onto leads they get is gonna be the reason why they're gonna win the division.

Posted by wylie715 on 3/2/2016 7:18:00 PM (view original):
bad base running and grounding into DPs is part of the offense. Run scoring is offense. Whether a team has 4 hits and 1 run in an inning or 1 hit and 1 run in an inning, the run counts the same. Regardless of why they don't score the runs, a team that scores more runs has a better offense.

The Tigers still have the 2nd best offense.

1st in BA. 2nd in OBP. 3rd in OPS. But you wanna go buy runs scored because stolen bases and errors are part of the offense

Base running is separate from hitting

Sure. But they're both offense.

Posted by d_rock97 on 3/2/2016 8:26:00 PM (view original):
1st in BA. 2nd in OBP. 3rd in OPS. But you wanna go buy runs scored because stolen bases and errors are part of the offense

I think he wants to go by runs scored because that's indicative of how good an offense is. I'll simplify:

Run scoring = offense
Run prevention = defense and pitching
If you score more runs than you give up, you win.

Is there any part of the above that requires further explanation?

You can't just go with one stat. There are many more factors. Plus 3 of the top 5 run scoring teams were in the AL East last year. There should be some log5 normalization thing there. No pitching, small ballparks, etc

Posted by d_rock97 on 3/2/2016 11:10:00 PM (view original):
You can't just go with one stat. There are many more factors. Plus 3 of the top 5 run scoring teams were in the AL East last year. There should be some log5 normalization thing there. No pitching, small ballparks, etc

Does "The Tigers, the second best offense in baseball ***"" work?

***They just couldn't score, but hitting is offense. Well part of it. I mean if you exclude actually crossing home plate and running and stuff.

Posted by d_rock97 on 3/2/2016 11:10:00 PM (view original):
You can't just go with one stat. There are many more factors. Plus 3 of the top 5 run scoring teams were in the AL East last year. There should be some log5 normalization thing there. No pitching, small ballparks, etc

If you want to calculate the effectiveness of an offense, you can use one stat. There is one objective on offense: Score runs.

That's what I thought, but apparently Tiger fans do it differently

Well, maybe it's only one but he's the face of the franchise around here.

or maybe there is only one Tigers fan????