Posted by esf0242 on 5/6/2016 5:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 5/4/2016 9:52:00 PM (view original):
I look at a guy like beachboy71 in Piazza who tanked his way to 245 wins in the last two seasons (with a $50 million payroll). Was it worth the 4-5 seasons of sucking to get to that point? Who knows. He hasn't won any titles. Yet I see other owners win a lot more without tanking. So idk.

my cousin, lol

If tanking and then trying to defend it is a skill than beachboy71 is the golden child lol.

Posted by bad_luck on 5/6/2016 4:22:00 PM (view original):
Because your argument is that a dominant team wrecks the world. Does it matter how it became dominant?

I didn't say that. But what I have said is pretty much all I'm going to say on it. Velazquez is on the mound so gonna move on and watch the game.

"Because tanking doesn't tip the playing field against anyone else." If this isn't the dumbest post of the year, it's in the conversation. It at least bumps tanking good/trade rape bad down one spot on the list.

Tanking, in fact, tips the playing field against EVERYONE else. As MikeT noted, doing it all season is less harmful. In a world with a MWR tankers get to the minimum and then lose as many as they can the rest of the way, impacting who makes playoffs. I can't think of anything that does MORE to tip the playing field. It tips the playing field against everyone who tries to be competitive each season, and diminishes the quality of draft picks for the other owners. You are correct that everyone has the right to run his team how he wants. But everyone else has an equal right to not want such owners in their worlds. To make a distinction among tanking and trade rape is silly. Both are harmful and make worlds harder to fill. Both show a lack of respect for the other 31 owners in a world. A good world can block trade rape through vetoes and educating noobs. A good world can do little about tanking other than hope the owner doesn't renew in time.

And yes, it matters how a team becomes dominant. Without tanking or trade rape, it is nigh impossible to build a 115-120-win team. If someone builds a consistent 100-game winner honestly, other owners should offer congratulations. If someone does it by tanking and trade rape (or collecting cash from aliases), not so much. There's a reason almost every private world as MWR, the reason is that tanking takes enjoyment out of the game for the majority that don't do it.

I look forward to whatever straw man you can concoct to argue against points I'm not making here.

Hmmm. BL is a no-show

Posted by sjpoker on 5/6/2016 7:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by esf0242 on 5/6/2016 5:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 5/4/2016 9:52:00 PM (view original):
I look at a guy like beachboy71 in Piazza who tanked his way to 245 wins in the last two seasons (with a $50 million payroll). Was it worth the 4-5 seasons of sucking to get to that point? Who knows. He hasn't won any titles. Yet I see other owners win a lot more without tanking. So idk.

my cousin, lol

If tanking and then trying to defend it is a skill than beachboy71 is the golden child lol.

not that my cousin needs defending (he has a couple other championships under a previous username) but you're saying a lot for a guy who has retained only one team over 4 seasons and that has a career 462 winning % under your guidance about how to build a team.

sjp doesn't have much room to talk, he did exactly what I said he'd do when he announce a "fire sale", but this is ugly:

Piazza	SAL Slayers	28	$42.4M	50-112 (.309)	4	-
Piazza	SAL Slayers	29	$16.9M	53-109 (.327)	4	-
Piazza	SAL Slayers	30	$21.7M	65-97 (.401)	4	-
Piazza	SAL Slayers	31	$23.8M	68-94 (.420)	4	-

i get it, i mean i understand what hes doing (my cousin) in that lg. im just saying, lol

He was a good owner when we were in Hamilton and he's in MG(I commish) now. He's have been booted after S1, S2, S3 and S4 in MG. He won't take that route because he can't. But it's still heavy-duty tanking.

Posted by esf0242 on 5/8/2016 5:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 5/6/2016 7:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by esf0242 on 5/6/2016 5:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 5/4/2016 9:52:00 PM (view original):
I look at a guy like beachboy71 in Piazza who tanked his way to 245 wins in the last two seasons (with a $50 million payroll). Was it worth the 4-5 seasons of sucking to get to that point? Who knows. He hasn't won any titles. Yet I see other owners win a lot more without tanking. So idk.

my cousin, lol

If tanking and then trying to defend it is a skill than beachboy71 is the golden child lol.

not that my cousin needs defending (he has a couple other championships under a previous username) but you're saying a lot for a guy who has retained only one team over 4 seasons and that has a career 462 winning % under your guidance about how to build a team.

I totally don't defend my track record. I'm stumbling around still. Just saying that he tanked in that world.

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2016 5:42:00 PM (view original):
He was a good owner when we were in Hamilton and he's in MG(I commish) now. He's have been booted after S1, S2, S3 and S4 in MG. He won't take that route because he can't. But it's still heavy-duty tanking.

i was *an original owner* in hamilton when it started - 4 seasons as jmcgarry (my other account)...lol just felt like sharing ;-)

seriously though, if you inherit a team (any lg where you haven't started from day 1) and you find your organization is bereft of talent, how else do you compete long term? which is the goal of any league to have long term owners, no? I'm in Guinness & I am admittedly gracefully tanking (36-39 w/ 42 mil payroll as of this post) got burned on the 3rd pick in the recent draft (see other thread) and have been doing so for the three seasons i have been there (79, 77. 61 wins). i try to field a quasi competitive team but my real goal is to get high picks and free up salary/money to put into prospect & draft/ifa scouting. i try to do it in a way that fields a better than AAA team but not by much, lol, there is nothing worse in any of the major sports than being .500, no mans land. i get it being overt, obvious etc, but really everyone always harping on the "it happens in real life" part of this game (injury to 98 health HOF pitcher that isnt even playing that day!! thats happened to me) and you cannot tell me that astros or my hometown rays didnt tank there way to relevance & other teams on the same path.

Mantle	SCO Fighting Artichokes	21	$82.3M	72-90 (.444)	4	-
Mantle	SCO Fighting Artichokes	22	$102.2M	89-73 (.549)	1	-
Mantle	SCO Fighting Artichokes	23	$108.1M	75-87 (.463)	3	-
Mantle	SCO Fighting Artichokes	24	$109.3M	85-77 (.525)	1	-
Mantle	SCO Fighting Artichokes	25	$115.2M	90-72 (.556)	1	-
Mantle	SCO Fighting Artichokes	26	$112.7M	84-78 (.519)	2	-
Mantle	SCO Fighting Artichokes	27	$117.2M	81-81 (.500)	3	-
Mantle	SCO Fighting Artichokes	28	$122.8M	93-69 (.574)	1	X
Mantle	SCO Fighting Artichokes	29	$124.1M	88-74 (.543)	2	-
Mantle	SCO Fighting Artichokes	30	$109.0M	97-65 (.599)	1	X
Mantle	SCO Fighting Artichokes	31	$102.2M	86-76 (.531)	3	-
Mantle	HON Warriors in Grass Skirts	32	$70.6M	65-97 (.401)	4	-
Mantle	HON Warriors in Grass Skirts	33	$83.9M	70-92 (.432)	4	-
Mantle	HON Warriors in Grass Skirts	34	$91.4M	83-79 (.512)	2	-
Mantle	HON Warriors in Grass Skirts	35	$108.8M	89-73 (.549)	1	-
Mantle	HON Warriors in Grass Skirts	36	$118.0M	80-82 (.494)	1	-
Mantle	HON Warriors in Grass Skirts	37	$117.4M	110-52 (.679)	1	-
Mantle	HON Warriors in Grass Skirts	38	$112.7M	95-67 (.586)	1	-
Mantle	HON Warriors in Grass Skirts	39	$111.3M	91-71 (.562)	1	-
Mantle	HON Warriors in Grass Skirts	40	-	70-48 (.593)	-	-

The idea that everyone can find a world with like minded GMs about these issues is silly.

You have no idea what the majority of GMs are like until you've been there at least a season or two.

A commish or new commish going off the rails can flip a good world bad very quickly.

As pointed out here many times, people will define taking differently. Not know it until they see it. And they'll think differently if it's them or a buddy involved.

HBD could solve this once and for all by having sliders and check boxes for all of these issues in every world.

Set by the commish or HBD when the world is created. Changed by majority vote or returning GMs.

Then everyone would know the rules when they joined a world. And could leave if the GMs voted in different rules.

No system is going to be perfect of keep everyone happy every time. IMO, clear and 100% enforced by HBD code (not commish or world vote) Yes You Can and No You Can't rules fixes all but the very rare situations.

so your answer is to just outspend & thats it, no other solution

I honestly have no idea what happened in S23 but, as you can tell, I was only horrible in S32-33(team won 75 the season before I took over). You don't have to lose 100 games or drop your payroll to 22m in order to rebuild a team.