Rogelio, you have the patience of a saint. In case anyone on the fence is following along, this last post is really all that's required to understand how irrationally the beta-ragers are behaving.

Recruiting starts tonight, which should start another flurry. Winter is coming.

• he grading scale is complete garbage - It is intended to obfuscate until you spend some budget. That's the point.
  • ?A grading scale where A+ ranges from 75-100 is terrible and wipes out the usefulness of level 1-3, you have to be stupid or out of money to be using less than level 4 info because its nothing but a huge gamble, because you can get an A+ guy in almost every category and not even be D1 talent You fail to realize that obfuscation is the point! An A+ that is blue or green is almost certainly 90+. That would be known at level 3. At D1, there's plenty of funds to scout players up to level 4. So, you only would need to make those choices at DII or DIII.
    • ?Okay that is a good point on the blue/green A+ I'll admit that, personally I'd rather have no blue/green A+ or heck even black A+'s A+ is the best letter grade and should say there just isn't much better he could get at this point, but seble has a different idea and wants a bell curve based on their incoming ratings. Now I just thought of will the letter scale change each season as different recruits come in? So some years an A+ is 75+ but others its 70+ or 67+ ? that last one is a serious question not an insult to seble or whoever else has their panties in a knot
• Assistant Coach is drunk fucktard - Everyone got their wish. You scout 4 times (or a combination of camps, FSS, & scout) and you know everything. You should be happy!
  • ?This wasn't a serious response so no point in responding Perfectly serious response. There are multiple methods of "discovering" players. Before the complaint was that multiple scouting trips wouldn't return the categories that mattered. Now you are saying the Asst. Coach trips don't return the results you would like, but they are only one option among several to employ to get results. It's like complaining that a hammer is bad when employed as a wrench. We know.
    • ?AC and the scouting complaints are kinda different. Not sure how it turned into "scouting trips are bad" The assistant coach being a drunkard was due to bringing in D3 players to D1 schools and D1 players to D3 schools, which now seble has someone come back and added a level selector so I give him props I honestly didn't think he would make a single change, credit where credit is due
• Camps are garbage(not factoring in prestige from the start i knew would make them pointless) The point of camps is to discover players. If you started "scouting" to determine precise potentials before the camps were run, you wasted your budget. That's a function of shooting your wad too soon, not the camps being bad.
  • ?I shouldn't be getting D1 players to my D3 team and my D1 teams should not be getting D3 players, whoever is in charge of inviting players to camps is probably a drunk fucktard. I'd say this would be a good idea if players who came were realistic. Why do you believe that players showing up at your camp are not recruitable? Remember, part of your scouting budget is to be employed in discovering players. It's quite possible that a D3 team will be able to sign players that show on D1 searches. We (read: you) don't know yet
    • ?I never said not recruitable I said unrealistic as in no D1 school would invite a D3 player to their camp unless the family donated a couple million. It seems everyone is "recruitable" which is worse than the pulldown/dropdowns which dropdowns are realistic.
• ???Level system is wack and we knew when he said the categories they would be bad(dur is useless) Level system? This sentence is completely incoherent. No idea what you are talking about.
• • ?Level 1-4 system for info is good idea but poorly implemented due to the grouping and bad letter scale This has been answered already.
• Budgets seem bad especially at D3 This is possibly a valid point, but it's incredibly easy to fix. You know the best way to win friends and influence decisions is to use phrases like "fucktard" as often as possible.
  • ?you really think seble fixes this... fucktard If it needs to be "fixed" to get the results that seble wants during the beta, yes. As I mentioned before, I suspect you had no idea how the new system will function and, long before you needed to, started wasting your budget and, when you realized your mistake, decided that everyone else was at fault.
    • ?Didn't waste my budget spent like 10K out of the 50K I had. Used my camp registered for 1 national camp, sent my AC coach on a few runs and then realized those were pointless and began scouting players individually. I never claimed I was bad at this or at fault. Realistically speaking lets see the update gives some advantages to coaches who know what they are doing and spend a lot of time finding players, yeh that totally doesn't sound like me honestly this update seems geared to help people who spend too much time on this game.
• 2 recruiting periods I do not think is feasible it hurts new coaches and punishes good coaches with EE's - Until we see how the signing logic actually works, this is just you guessing, there may be top tier recruits still available. No one knows yet. Coaches that are already in the world can recruit a little during the 2nd cycle, but coaches that are new to the world cannot. If that works properly, then it partially addresses my concern about coaches having to invest in a wasted season to take over a team they want (making rebuilding really unattractive). I agree there's a concern here, but we don't know yet.
  • ?coaches moving jobs hurt too, until we know how this actual works out its negative i dont trust seble Useless, but I do agree that you are blaming seble for your own inability to adjust...to the beta...not even the actual rollout...the beta.
    • it's not an inability it's a lack of wanting again I've stated already you really don't think this scouting progress is actually something that benefits people with a lot of time to devote to this game? I blame seble for not listening to the forums or taking any input and then disappearing for a good while to and making a lot of highly questionable decisions, but I don't think I blamed him for my "lack of talent"
• Preferences are stupid(really we are going to make decisions on 1 year sample of your defense or tempo?) and punishes coaches for moving jobs againWhat we don't know is how these will be weighted against prestige, etc. Currently, in Smith, I won the National Championship at D1...no D1 recruits liked my school...I think this will be an improvement.
  • ?regardless of how they are weighted they are bad ideas, really tempo so I will be out of luck for a good recruit for switching my tempo all the time, for having a strong defense only some seasons and lose out becase one season i relied on my offense. big men with sub 20 per/bh/pas wanting perimeter offenses. lack of loyalty when moving up jobs hrts you. The weight placed on these factors makes all the difference. Isn't it obvious that WIS is attempting to address everyone's concerns that the Big 6 schools get to sign all the players they want? This is an attempt to allow a Butler or VCU or Gonzaga to, on occasion, steal a player in straight battle. As the game is currently played, everyone spends all their time avoiding battles to save their money for rollover or to target just 1 battle. The result: a lot of the most experienced coaches don't want any part of D1, or they want to be in a Big 6 conference and everything else is emptied. Everything depends on the weight given to these. Again, recruiting in the Beta hasn't started yet, so you have no idea.
    • ?and look at Butler and VCU where are their coaches? oh thats right they moved up jobs because no one wants to freaking stay there no matter how successful they are there. Something that was an even bigger concern that big 6 coaches getting the players they want or at least brought up more frequently. And if they make it so Butler and VCU can compete good that is a problem that would be nice to address and I hope this fix does address it.
• Confernce chat being relocated was idiotic Replace "idiotic" with " a mistake" and I'd agree. This resembles GD boards, which is not a good thing, but it actually renders better on a phone than on computer.
  • ?an idiot made a mistake so it was idiotic Classless.
    • Good, I hope you don't think I've been trying to be classy here, I'm full on trailer park status right now
• very low isn't important and very high probably gives to much info away easily This contradicts your first point. I might prefer if the scale was tweaked to give the breaks at 7, 14, 21 & 28+, as that would be a more readable and useful scale, but the question is how much scouting do you need to do to get all the info...the answer now is 4.
  • ?not sure how this contradicts what im saying in point 1 they are unrelated items, im fine having this info level 4, but it would be better to have avg seperated into 2 categories and no low/low-. I agree it is fine if the levels are not stupid What you said was "gives to [sic] much info away [too] easily." That undercuts all of your complaints about grades and how scouting doesn't immediately return the best suited recruits for your school or that a budget allocation game makes you allocate your budget in ways that you'd prefer to avoid...so...you have to make choices.
    • ?Gives to much away potential wise not ratings wise again very similar but also different. I guess thinking about it at some point you do have to seperate high and high+ since they're no "scouting trips" and if we want to talk about how it affects making choices now everyone knows whether a guy is high+ in lp/per or ath and can target them right away and make a choice even quicker. If you got rid of the bad level 1 info and brought everything down a level so level 4 is now level 3 making level 4 seperate low low- and high high+ would actually be a good idea because then you can actually use level 3 info and you don't get the high -/+ the instant you get the numerical ratings adding in the new choice of do I go with him at level 3 or do I go to level 4 similar to how now you can take a player without too much worry if he has a lot of blues, or can scout him to see if they are high -/+ another decision to add in.
• no bonus cash punishes super conferences which are half the fun maybe, but this depends upon how prestige & conference prestige factor into recruiting & preferences...which we don't know yet. Also, I think there are a number of folks who don't find super-conferences fun. So, definitely, this was a focus of the update.
  • ?still going to affect closely situated conferences because you have less budget to scout far away. so now we cater to ****** coaches that suck? You're not thinking straight. The perverse thing about the bonus cash and carryover is that it means that coaches realize they need to group together for the purpose of competing. It has the effect of incentivizing coaches to join the same conference. It actually creates a problem in the current game that they are trying to eliminate.
    • ?Then don't cut it out completely and hang out those who like super conferences out to dry. Now we are going to have people trying to spread out as much as possible because they don't have the cash to go farther out when they are bunched closely together. You don't have to bunch together at all to be competitive many coaches win NC games in empty conferences.
• Can't even purchase multiple FSS states at once So what?
  • ?not a big deal by why change it because now its just another hassle and estimating costs is harder as you can't see what the total cost is You realize that the scouting budget is separate from the recruiting budget, right? FSS really did give away too much information too inexpensively. Perversely, at the highest end of D1, you barely need it. The reason to change the system is to generate more battles and allow some players to slip through the cracks to low D1, etc. Once you get used to it, I doubt it will take more time. It should be less time-sensitive than it is now.
    • ?woah the budgets are seperate!? I didn't have a clue. lol ya im an ******* not an idiot I knew the budgets were seperate, but it still makes strategic sense to see how much FSS states costs to see how much your scouting budget has if you want to be smart about it and not blow it all. "here North carolina and Duke put these blindfolds on while recruiting because the lower schools are complaining about not getting all the good players to find" Literally this was a simple allow coaches to FSS multiple states at once I thought this was a simple thing but apparently its utmost important to make coaches spend an extra minute or 2 FSS all the states the want
• A lot of the color scheme is bad
  • , purple and black look so close and the gameplan pages the white/grey is an annoyance.It looks way better on phones. If you want the game to grow, they have no choice, but to make the game more functional on phones. You'd get over it in about a week.
    • ?maybe do something that doesn't look bad on computers too? i have perfect vision and couldn't tell the difference between purple and black the whole time I was scouting. Your rage is probably making everything red-shift... Maybe you should have your vision checked? Maybe think about therapy?
      • ?wouldn't red tinting make the purple look pink and not black? vision has always been fine and my therapist says I'm doing okay and should just not forget to take my xanax. I love how those using laptops must "suck it up" and realize it works on mobile so get used to it. Why not just use a color scheme that works on both or is that too hard?

Posted by shoe3 on 6/6/2016 11:56:00 AM (view original):
Rogelio, you have the patience of a saint. In case anyone on the fence is following along, this last post is really all that's required to understand how irrationally the beta-ragers are behaving.

Recruiting starts tonight, which should start another flurry. Winter is coming.

we're not being irrational you are just labeling us like that because you can't accept any critism to the game which would actually make you more irrational in this discussion as I've conceding points and then offered more suggestions atop, but you then shut down and scream it's perfect and anyone who disagrees it "irrational"

you don't want to have a true discussion because you can't admit the update has many many faults. at least rogelio has the balls to have a debate about it instead of saying "I'll look into it"

theOnly Stop with the speculation. We are going to recruit tonight, we will be keeping you posted. It should be a discovery, so yes, we won't know what to do until we tried it at least one time.

you mean stop with the "negative" speculation, it's only okay to speculate how good the updates are going to be and now that seble made 1 change to the assistant coach scouting it clears him of the 2+ years he was gone and did nothing

Posted by the0nlyis on 6/6/2016 1:53:00 PM (view original):
you mean stop with the "negative" speculation, it's only okay to speculate how good the updates are going to be and now that seble made 1 change to the assistant coach scouting it clears him of the 2+ years he was gone and did nothing

lol So two years you say nothing bad? I am up for it.

what?

Posted by the0nlyis on 6/6/2016 1:53:00 PM (view original):
you mean stop with the "negative" speculation, it's only okay to speculate how good the updates are going to be and now that seble made 1 change to the assistant coach scouting it clears him of the 2+ years he was gone and did nothing

Maybe seble has more than HD on his plate. I honestly have no idea, but I don't want to assume he's a lazy idiot when we don't know

Posted by tarvolon on 6/6/2016 1:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by the0nlyis on 6/6/2016 1:53:00 PM (view original):
you mean stop with the "negative" speculation, it's only okay to speculate how good the updates are going to be and now that seble made 1 change to the assistant coach scouting it clears him of the 2+ years he was gone and did nothing

Maybe seble has more than HD on his plate. I honestly have no idea, but I don't want to assume he's a lazy idiot when we don't know

Let's look at whats happened

So 2012 was the last time something really "major" happened. Did some minor visual changes to some ranking things early Jan '13 and everything else was minor things changing how information was seen. Added a .425 win% for the PIT May 2014. 2015 we had the way seasons were handled changed which was actually pretty good idea. And fixing the game simulation time after they moved pretty much an hour back.

Hoops Dynasty

3/4/2016 seble - Recruiting Update Update

9/17/2015 seble - Questions about the upcoming recruiting update.

6/21/2012 seble - Chat to discuss the 6/26 update and HD in general

11/29/2011 seble - November 2011 Update

2/3/2011 seble - Chat about the 2/3 release and other HD issues

11/4/2010 seble - General HD chat

5/4/2010 seble - Discussion of the upcoming release on May 12th

2/3/2010 seble - Chat about 2/3 release and any other HD issues

7/2/2009 seble - Chat Week 2009 - Any and all HD questions welcome.

2/17/2009 seble - Player Improvement Changes and Potential

3 years and 3 months from when he did his last developer chat.

I think we can assume a little bit, maybe if it was just 1 year we could maybe give him a pass, but too little too late, heck when I first joined 2 years ago Seble was not viewed positively on the forums. How hard would it have been to do a 1 hour chat even once a year....

So we are supposed to wait another 3-4 years for something like the way prestige is calculated to be fixed? I won't even talk about jobs because I know they will never fix those because it would cost them so much money

Posted by the0nlyis on 6/6/2016 12:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/6/2016 11:56:00 AM (view original):
Rogelio, you have the patience of a saint. In case anyone on the fence is following along, this last post is really all that's required to understand how irrationally the beta-ragers are behaving.

Recruiting starts tonight, which should start another flurry. Winter is coming.

we're not being irrational you are just labeling us like that because you can't accept any critism to the game which would actually make you more irrational in this discussion as I've conceding points and then offered more suggestions atop, but you then shut down and scream it's perfect and anyone who disagrees it "irrational"

you don't want to have a true discussion because you can't admit the update has many many faults. at least rogelio has the balls to have a debate about it instead of saying "I'll look into it"

Rational is discussing your preferences like a grown-up, with the understanding that you don't know it all and other people will have other preferences and priorities that are valid. There's a lot of that happening n the beta forums, where literally no one is "screaming" about it being perfect. You are not behaving rationally. You are behaving like an unemployed dropout who yells at his mom for buying him the wrong color Doritos.

And you're behaving like someone who hires undocumented immigrants for 50 cents and hour to wipe your ******* because wiping your own *** is beneath you.

I've at least managed to have input and then go to the insulting for most of my posts you kinda try to skimp out on putting forth any counter arguement to perfectly plausible arguments and skip to insulting me

Uh there's a ton of people jumping on the seble bandwagon this whole time, refusing to accept their might be a single thing wrong.

Never said I know it all, heck one of the biggest arguements is that we won't know it all until they put it in and we beta 2.0 for a year or so. So I'm not just going around like I magically know everything.

I don't eat Doritos either, I just had a sandwhich and grapes for lunch though.

Posted by rogelio on 6/6/2016 11:11:00 AM (view original):
Let's try one more time:

• he grading scale is complete garbage - It is intended to obfuscate until you spend some budget. That's the point.
  • ?A grading scale where A+ ranges from 75-100 is terrible and wipes out the usefulness of level 1-3, you have to be stupid or out of money to be using less than level 4 info because its nothing but a huge gamble, because you can get an A+ guy in almost every category and not even be D1 talent You fail to realize that obfuscation is the point! An A+ that is blue or green is almost certainly 90+. That would be known at level 3. At D1, there's plenty of funds to scout players up to level 4. So, you only would need to make those choices at DII or DIII.
• Assistant Coach is drunk fucktard - Everyone got their wish. You scout 4 times (or a combination of camps, FSS, & scout) and you know everything. You should be happy!
  • ?This wasn't a serious response so no point in responding Perfectly serious response. There are multiple methods of "discovering" players. Before the complaint was that multiple scouting trips wouldn't return the categories that mattered. Now you are saying the Asst. Coach trips don't return the results you would like, but they are only one option among several to employ to get results. It's like complaining that a hammer is bad when employed as a wrench. We know.
• Camps are garbage(not factoring in prestige from the start i knew would make them pointless) The point of camps is to discover players. If you started "scouting" to determine precise potentials before the camps were run, you wasted your budget. That's a function of shooting your wad too soon, not the camps being bad.
  • ?I shouldn't be getting D1 players to my D3 team and my D1 teams should not be getting D3 players, whoever is in charge of inviting players to camps is probably a drunk fucktard. I'd say this would be a good idea if players who came were realistic. Why do you believe that players showing up at your camp are not recruitable? Remember, part of your scouting budget is to be employed in discovering players. It's quite possible that a D3 team will be able to sign players that show on D1 searches. We (read: you) don't know yet.
• Level system is wack and we knew when he said the categories they would be bad(dur is useless) Level system? This sentence is completely incoherent. No idea what you are talking about.
  • ?Level 1-4 system for info is good idea but poorly implemented due to the grouping and bad letter scale This has been answered already.
• Budgets seem bad especially at D3 This is possibly a valid point, but it's incredibly easy to fix. You know the best way to win friends and influence decisions is to use phrases like "fucktard" as often as possible.
  • ?you really think seble fixes this... fucktard If it needs to be "fixed" to get the results that seble wants during the beta, yes. As I mentioned before, I suspect you had no idea how the new system will function and, long before you needed to, started wasting your budget and, when you realized your mistake, decided that everyone else was at fault.
• 2 recruiting periods I do not think is feasible it hurts new coaches and punishes good coaches with EE's - Until we see how the signing logic actually works, this is just you guessing, there may be top tier recruits still available. No one knows yet. Coaches that are already in the world can recruit a little during the 2nd cycle, but coaches that are new to the world cannot. If that works properly, then it partially addresses my concern about coaches having to invest in a wasted season to take over a team they want (making rebuilding really unattractive). I agree there's a concern here, but we don't know yet.
  • ?coaches moving jobs hurt too, until we know how this actual works out its negative i dont trust seble Useless, but I do agree that you are blaming seble for your own inability to adjust...to the beta...not even the actual rollout...the beta.
• Preferences are stupid(really we are going to make decisions on 1 year sample of your defense or tempo?) and punishes coaches for moving jobs againWhat we don't know is how these will be weighted against prestige, etc. Currently, in Smith, I won the National Championship at D1...no D1 recruits liked my school...I think this will be an improvement.
  • ?regardless of how they are weighted they are bad ideas, really tempo so I will be out of luck for a good recruit for switching my tempo all the time, for having a strong defense only some seasons and lose out becase one season i relied on my offense. big men with sub 20 per/bh/pas wanting perimeter offenses. lack of loyalty when moving up jobs hrts you. The weight placed on these factors makes all the difference. Isn't it obvious that WIS is attempting to address everyone's concerns that the Big 6 schools get to sign all the players they want? This is an attempt to allow a Butler or VCU or Gonzaga to, on occasion, steal a player in straight battle. As the game is currently played, everyone spends all their time avoiding battles to save their money for rollover or to target just 1 battle. The result: a lot of the most experienced coaches don't want any part of D1, or they want to be in a Big 6 conference and everything else is emptied. Everything depends on the weight given to these. Again, recruiting in the Beta hasn't started yet, so you have no idea.
• Confernce chat being relocated was idiotic Replace "idiotic" with " a mistake" and I'd agree. This resembles GD boards, which is not a good thing, but it actually renders better on a phone than on computer.
  • ?an idiot made a mistake so it was idiotic Classless.
• very low isn't important and very high probably gives to much info away easily This contradicts your first point. I might prefer if the scale was tweaked to give the breaks at 7, 14, 21 & 28+, as that would be a more readable and useful scale, but the question is how much scouting do you need to do to get all the info...the answer now is 4.
  • ?not sure how this contradicts what im saying in point 1 they are unrelated items, im fine having this info level 4, but it would be better to have avg seperated into 2 categories and no low/low-. I agree it is fine if the levels are not stupid What you said was "gives to [sic] much info away [too] easily." That undercuts all of your complaints about grades and how scouting doesn't immediately return the best suited recruits for your school or that a budget allocation game makes you allocate your budget in ways that you'd prefer to avoid...so...you have to make choices.
• no bonus cash punishes super conferences which are half the fun maybe, but this depends upon how prestige & conference prestige factor into recruiting & preferences...which we don't know yet. Also, I think there are a number of folks who don't find super-conferences fun. So, definitely, this was a focus of the update.
  • ?still going to affect closely situated conferences because you have less budget to scout far away. so now we cater to ****** coaches that suck? You're not thinking straight. The perverse thing about the bonus cash and carryover is that it means that coaches realize they need to group together for the purpose of competing. It has the effect of incentivizing coaches to join the same conference. It actually creates a problem in the current game that they are trying to eliminate.
• Can't even purchase multiple FSS states at once So what?
  • ?not a big deal by why change it because now its just another hassle and estimating costs is harder as you can't see what the total cost is You realize that the scouting budget is separate from the recruiting budget, right? FSS really did give away too much information too inexpensively. Perversely, at the highest end of D1, you barely need it. The reason to change the system is to generate more battles and allow some players to slip through the cracks to low D1, etc. Once you get used to it, I doubt it will take more time. It should be less time-sensitive than it is now.
• A lot of the color scheme is bad, purple and black look so close and the gameplan pages the white/grey is an annoyance. It looks way better on phones. If you want the game to grow, they have no choice, but to make the game more functional on phones. You'd get over it in about a week.
  • ?maybe do something that doesn't look bad on computers too? i have perfect vision and couldn't tell the difference between purple and black the whole time I was scouting. Your rage is probably making everything red-shift... Maybe you should have your vision checked? Maybe think about therapy?

+1

Posted by shoe3 on 6/5/2016 9:03:00 AM (view original):
Like I said, I have thick skin. Go ahead and keep up with the personal insults and irrational tantrums. The more clearly you demonstrate what you're about, the less tempted anyone will be to take you seriously.

hehehe, you think anybody takes you seriously either, this is a message board on the internet brah??? And obviously its not thick enough if you're sooo worried about personal insults, especially considering that you seem to be oblivious to the insults you're fling out.

Posted by shoe3 on 6/6/2016 11:56:00 AM (view original):
Rogelio, you have the patience of a saint. In case anyone on the fence is following along, this last post is really all that's required to understand how irrationally the beta-ragers are behaving.

Recruiting starts tonight, which should start another flurry. Winter is coming.

I'd for damn sure rather be rager than some douchey cheerleader.

Oh, we have a comeback, ladies and gentlemen! "Brah". And "douchey cheerleader" in back to back posts. I am so humbled.