The only thing keeping him out of the HOF is the fact that he hasn't played 10 seasons.

Numbers are silly and getting sillier every year. Greatest LHP in Dodgers history???

Year	Age	Tm	Lg	W	L	W-L%	ERA	G	GS	GF	CG	SHO	SV	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	IBB	SO	HBP	BK	WP	BF	ERA+	FIP	WHIP	H9	HR9	BB9	SO9	SO/W	Awards
2008	20	LAD	NL	5	5	.500	4.26	22	21	0	0	0	0	107.2	109	51	51	11	52	3	100	1	0	7	470	98	4.08	1.495	9.1	0.9	4.3	8.4	1.92
2009	21	LAD	NL	8	8	.500	2.79	31	30	1	0	0	0	171.0	119	55	53	7	91	4	185	1	2	11	701	143	3.08	1.228	6.3	0.4	4.8	9.7	2.03
2010	22	LAD	NL	13	10	.565	2.91	32	32	0	1	1	0	204.1	160	73	66	13	81	9	212	7	2	5	848	133	3.12	1.179	7.0	0.6	3.6	9.3	2.62
2011 ?	23	LAD	NL	21	5	.808	2.28	33	33	0	5	2	0	233.1	174	66	59	15	54	2	248	3	1	5	912	161	2.47	0.977	6.7	0.6	2.1	9.6	4.59	AS,CYA-1,MVP-12,GG
2012 ?	24	LAD	NL	14	9	.609	2.53	33	33	0	2	2	0	227.2	170	70	64	16	63	5	229	5	2	6	901	150	2.89	1.023	6.7	0.6	2.5	9.1	3.63	AS,CYA-2,MVP-16
2013 ?	25	LAD	NL	16	9	.640	1.83	33	33	0	3	2	0	236.0	164	55	48	11	52	2	232	3	2	12	908	194	2.39	0.915	6.3	0.4	2.0	8.8	4.46	AS,CYA-1,MVP-7
2014 ?	26	LAD	NL	21	3	.875	1.77	27	27	0	6	2	0	198.1	139	42	39	9	31	0	239	2	2	7	749	197	1.81	0.857	6.3	0.4	1.4	10.8	7.71	AS,CYA-1,MVP-1
2015 ?	27	LAD	NL	16	7	.696	2.13	33	33	0	4	3	0	232.2	163	62	55	15	42	1	301	5	3	9	890	171	1.99	0.881	6.3	0.6	1.6	11.6	7.17	AS,CYA-3,MVP-10
2016	28	LAD	NL	7	1	.875	1.56	11	11	0	3	3	0	86.2	51	16	15	4	5	0	105	1	2	2	309	245	1.50	0.646	5.3	0.4	0.5	10.9	21.00
9 Yrs				121	57	.680	2.39	255	253	1	24	15	0	1697.2	1249	490	450	101	471	26	1851	28	16	64	6688	157	2.56	1.013	6.6	0.5	2.5	9.8	3.93

He's already better than Koufax, but I don't know if he's a lock for the Hall yet. He only has 1700 innings. Pedro has 2800 with a higher peak.

I think Kershaw makes it but he needs another 5 good seasons.

I think I'm almost with BL on this one. Koufax was basically an average pitcher until he suddenly wasn't for the last 5 seasons of his career. In those seasons, he went 111-34 with a 1.95 ERA, 167 ERA+, and 9.4 K/9 and won 3 Cy Youngs. Over the past 5 seasons Kershaw has gone 88-33 with a 2.11 ERA, 172 ERA+, and 10 K/9 and won 3 Cy Youngs. That's basically a wash. And while the volume is lower, Kershaw's achievement before the last 5 years (and so far this year) was at a much higher level than what Koufax did before he peaked. And of course, as of now, Kershaw is having the best SP season in history in 2016.

I don't even think he needs another 5 good seasons. I think if he drags himself through 3 or 4 more years of utter mediocrity he cruises in on the first ballot. But that seems highly unlikely.

Dahs -

Koufax was forced to start pitching right out of High School. Then, once he got his footing and became a full time starter, had to pitch in the frigging Coliseum. I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe the Coliseum was a historically bad ballpark to pitch in. Plus, a lot of runs were scored league wide in the first few years he was in LA.

Then he moved to Dodger Stadium. And in 170+ starts in those last years he finished 100 games. Won 3 Cy Young Awards and an MVP. 33 Shutouts.

Now if I factor in Kershaw's last 5 full seasons plus this season - like you did - I agree that he's comparable. But not quite as good.

Statistically over his career Kershaw is 'better' but I'm guessing if Koufax got 200+ innings in the minors, and had pitched his entire career in Dodger Stadium, he'd have the better stats. And who knows what he would have done in the seasons from age 31-35.

You don't get credit for years you didn't pitch. dahs did ERA+ which negates parks. Anyway, they're comparable no matter what metric you use. Kershaw just doesn't have the volume at this point. dahs is probably right if he throws in another 600-800 innings of average pitching. But that's giving him credit for something he hasn't done. Much like Koufax gets no credit for pitching into his 30s.

Koufax has always been an interesting case because he was very mediocre for the first half of his career, and just plain sick in the second half of his career. People tend to remember the latter half and forget the first half. Koufax also averaged close to 300 IP in the last four seasons of his career.

Kershaw's career has been much more consistent from the start up to the present. His career "rate" numbers to date (9 seasons) are ahead of Koufax's final 9 seasons, though the raw totals are significantly lower because he's pitched over 400 fewer innings. That's just because they're both products of their times.

This is a rare case in which I agree with BL. Kershaw is certainly tracking towards a HOF career, but he if suddenly and inexplicably becomes mediocre for the rest of his career, he becomes another Koufax. Arguments would be able to be made either way.

LOL. tec is a BL lapdog.

Beaten into submission much?

Though Koufax has more wins.

Posted by tecwrg on 6/1/2016 7:22:00 PM (view original):
Koufax has always been an interesting case because he was very mediocre for the first half of his career, and just plain sick in the second half of his career. People tend to remember the latter half and forget the first half. Koufax also averaged close to 300 IP in the last four seasons of his career.

Kershaw's career has been much more consistent from the start up to the present. His career "rate" numbers to date (9 seasons) are ahead of Koufax's final 9 seasons, though the raw totals are significantly lower because he's pitched over 400 fewer innings. That's just because they're both products of their times.

This is a rare case in which I agree with BL. Kershaw is certainly tracking towards a HOF career, but he if suddenly and inexplicably becomes mediocre for the rest of his career, he becomes another Koufax. Arguments would be able to be made either way.

I am challenging that BL casually said Kershaw is better - right now. That's not the case. At best they are comparable.

It depends. If you're talking about the totality of their careers, then they're comparable. If you're talking about pitching at their highest levels, then Kershaw has sustained that longer than Koufax.

Posted by tecwrg on 6/1/2016 7:39:00 PM (view original):
It depends. If you're talking about the totality of their careers, then they're comparable. If you're talking about pitching at their highest levels, then Kershaw has sustained that longer than Koufax.

Despite how magical ERA+ and WAR is I still think that if Kershaw had to pitch in the Coliseum then he might have struggled also. The Coliseum sucked. **** the Raiders played there.

I don't give a **** about WAR but I really think you need to look up how ERA+ works.

You're boldly marching into badluck, USA territory now by doubling down on what you think.