Posted by wylie715 on 6/22/2016 12:32:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, but if I'm the Cavs, I'm thinking I know we can win with LeBron & Kyrie. We just did it. So why take on an aging, more expensive player in Paul? When LeBron gets old, Paul will also be old and he won't have the pull to attract other free agents to Cleveland either. At least you'll still have a relatively young and talented point guard in Irving. You trade Irving for Paul and when Paul and LeBron get old you have nothing.

If I'm the Clippers I make that trade in a heartbeat. They obviously can't win it all with Griffin and Paul, so why not get a bit younger without losing much in talent?

When Lebron is done, Irving won't be that young though and he has had a lot of injuries. But even assuming he is healthy, you aren't winning a title with him leading the way and you won't have any real way (aside from free agency) to get the talent needed, so Kyrie will have to leave anyway for the Cavs to become legit contenders.

If you increase your window, you have to do it, and Paul increases that window as he is a better fit offensively and a much better defensive player.

Posted by toddcommish on 6/22/2016 12:38:00 PM (view original):
Also, despite the LeBron suckfest in the media, KYRIE won them this series; with his defense on Steph and that sick 25-footer with a minute to go. There was ONE basket made over the last four minutes, and it wasn't made by the self-proclaimed king. LeBron's stats this series weren't that much different from last year when the Cavs lost. Kyrie was the difference.

And Steph owns CP3 like Kyrie owns Steph.

Lebron shot a full 10% higher this year.

But isn't that the point that the Cavs were a one man show because Lebron had no offensive help. If James is hurt the Cavs don't make the Finals and certainly don't beat the Warriors. Sure Kyrie played well and hit some big shots, but James was the best player by far in that series.

Posted by moranis on 6/22/2016 4:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 6/22/2016 12:38:00 PM (view original):
Also, despite the LeBron suckfest in the media, KYRIE won them this series; with his defense on Steph and that sick 25-footer with a minute to go. There was ONE basket made over the last four minutes, and it wasn't made by the self-proclaimed king. LeBron's stats this series weren't that much different from last year when the Cavs lost. Kyrie was the difference.

And Steph owns CP3 like Kyrie owns Steph.

Lebron shot a full 10% higher this year.

But isn't that the point that the Cavs were a one man show because Lebron had no offensive help. If James is hurt the Cavs don't make the Finals and certainly don't beat the Warriors. Sure Kyrie played well and hit some big shots, but James was the best player by far in that series.

Both played great in the last 5 games, no need to diminish either.

Posted by moranis on 6/22/2016 4:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/22/2016 12:32:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, but if I'm the Cavs, I'm thinking I know we can win with LeBron & Kyrie. We just did it. So why take on an aging, more expensive player in Paul? When LeBron gets old, Paul will also be old and he won't have the pull to attract other free agents to Cleveland either. At least you'll still have a relatively young and talented point guard in Irving. You trade Irving for Paul and when Paul and LeBron get old you have nothing.

If I'm the Clippers I make that trade in a heartbeat. They obviously can't win it all with Griffin and Paul, so why not get a bit younger without losing much in talent?

When Lebron is done, Irving won't be that young though and he has had a lot of injuries. But even assuming he is healthy, you aren't winning a title with him leading the way and you won't have any real way (aside from free agency) to get the talent needed, so Kyrie will have to leave anyway for the Cavs to become legit contenders.

If you increase your window, you have to do it, and Paul increases that window as he is a better fit offensively and a much better defensive player.

I don't see how trading for Paul increases the Cav's window. He's older than Irving, and he's had a few injuries as well. When LeBron is done, Paul will be almost done as well and you won't be winning any titles with just Paul.either and and old Paul will also not attract any free agents. Kyrie did a decent job defending Curry. I don't recall Paul doing much to stop Steph. I think when LeBron is done, the Cavs will mostly have to rebuild through drafts and smart trades regardless of who else is there. If I'm the Cavs I keep Irving and if I'm the Clippers, I trade Paul for Irving without any hesitation.

Posted by wylie715 on 6/23/2016 1:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moranis on 6/22/2016 4:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/22/2016 12:32:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, but if I'm the Cavs, I'm thinking I know we can win with LeBron & Kyrie. We just did it. So why take on an aging, more expensive player in Paul? When LeBron gets old, Paul will also be old and he won't have the pull to attract other free agents to Cleveland either. At least you'll still have a relatively young and talented point guard in Irving. You trade Irving for Paul and when Paul and LeBron get old you have nothing.

If I'm the Clippers I make that trade in a heartbeat. They obviously can't win it all with Griffin and Paul, so why not get a bit younger without losing much in talent?

When Lebron is done, Irving won't be that young though and he has had a lot of injuries. But even assuming he is healthy, you aren't winning a title with him leading the way and you won't have any real way (aside from free agency) to get the talent needed, so Kyrie will have to leave anyway for the Cavs to become legit contenders.

If you increase your window, you have to do it, and Paul increases that window as he is a better fit offensively and a much better defensive player.

I don't see how trading for Paul increases the Cav's window. He's older than Irving, and he's had a few injuries as well. When LeBron is done, Paul will be almost done as well and you won't be winning any titles with just Paul.either and and old Paul will also not attract any free agents. Kyrie did a decent job defending Curry. I don't recall Paul doing much to stop Steph. I think when LeBron is done, the Cavs will mostly have to rebuild through drafts and smart trades regardless of who else is there. If I'm the Cavs I keep Irving and if I'm the Clippers, I trade Paul for Irving without any hesitation.

Because you can't truly rebuild, especially in a place like Cleveland, without the draft. And the best way to hit in the draft is to be terrible and get high picks. When Lebron is done, Cleveland is going to have to be terrible for a number of years to build through the draft before they are a contender again.

Paul has played 39 more games than Irving since Irving entered the league (that is almost 8 games per season) and all but 1 of those 5 seasons Paul played more games in the season than Irving.

Paul is a much better passer than Irving and a much better defender. They are comparable shooters, but Paul gets to the line more. All of the advanced metrics heavily favor Paul. Now sure at some point Paul is going to start to fade and Irving will likely still improve so Irving is definitely going to be the better player a few years from now, but by then James won't be James and the Cavs won't be a true contender without James anyway. If you increase your window you have to do it (beside James and Paul are friends, and thus James is much more likely to stay in Cleveland longer with his friend).