We are not employees of whatifsports nor are we forced to play HD. Therefore we are not obligated to be cheerleaders for the game. If we see things we don't like, we have every right to point them out so long as no personal lines are crossed.

I'm very happy you think the game is being changed for the better and are excited for the changes. Feel free to express that as much as you like, and no one should tell you think otherwise or act in a manner contrary to the way you believe the game is heading.

maybe the #17 recruit in the country cannot afford that expensive *** school that recruited him so hard. It's life, maybe he had a kid he wanted to be part of life with.

maybe he's a pile of electrons...

This game is going to be better than the beta because they are taking the users input and changing the game for the better.

The game might come out better on the other side. However, past experience with prior betas and big changes to the game resulted in a rushed and incomplete beta and implementation of a product not fully ready for consumption, followed by 7 months of tweaks to get it "right". I have seen many things in this current beta starting from how users chose teams (why are coaches who have never coached at high D1 doing so in the beta? Because it's "cool" - not because they have any comparable experience to report how the game compares at this level, for instance.)

Yes, he is implementing things (often too soon as doing so is wildly fluctuating the process midstream, making it hard to see how things actually will work), and for every good suggestion he likes, he seems as likely to choose solutions for other issues that I personally don't feel will address the underlying issues.

This is just my opinion however. YMMV.

you have Zero clue on how this game will be...yet claim others that have been customers longer are clueless. The #17 Div 1 PF recruit in the country signed with a div 3 with a simple scholarship and a VERY few letter-call AP now. That is insane in real life or Sim Life.

Seble may and probably will fix some of these problems...but He and WIS Ignored problems for years and suddenly this is a fix instead of working on a system that worked with a few problems

I have ZERO faith the new system and problems will be FIXED.......WIS has shown that indifference for years and I see no change nor do I see the previous problems solved other than glossed over with color and more problems created

the new game will be better than the beta - I am confident

I think the new game will be better than the old game in some ways, worse in others.

I have seen no reason to think it will solve the long recognized problems with the game - and therefore I have expressed my opinion a bit. We are all customers and we each have our opinions. We each will decide whether to play or to walk away from the game. As of now, I plan to use my credits and then leave.

I still love the negative feedback. I have yet to see a single positive feedback from taniajane, or jsajsa. To be honest this is not the place to just vent out your frustrations for an incomplete update. I totally understand that you are allowed to vent etc....however venting here is not productive. It is changing views of those yet to see the beta. That is what is so frustrating about all of the negative feedback and actions of users. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE END GAME WILL BE LIKE AFTER BETA. So to be honest and frank keep your mouths shut until such a time that venting is useful. Specifically on these forums which is not meant to be a place to vent out frustrations on something most people here have yet to see.

Personally I think that they are being very generous allowing you to vent about the beta. Any other organization would have repercussions for those types of actions. Look at the big name games that come out every year, COD for example. Reviewed can only come our after it is released. Is this game released yet? Not even close so to be honest again I might be new to this game and the forums compared to your old geysers and hate change.

I will reiterate THEY ARE LETTING YOU HAVE INPUT, what other organization would allow that......slim and NONE. So keep your trash talk to yourselves until the game gets released and your concerns are justified. At this point you have no justification to back up your words. I only hear nag nag nag nag nag. Whine Whine Whine Whine Whine. You never saw me whine to have the game changed, no I am not a great coach, yes I made it to DI on my own and came to this game later than you, but I never once asked for a change, but I am open to it and think it actually could make the game better in the long run without you all ruining the process. Let the process roll its course, take all the concerns you have now and keep them to yourself. Then once the game is released if you have not voiced them to Seble that is your fault. Do not voice them to everyone who knows nothing about the beta, has not seen the beta and are not participating. That is counter productive. It is almost as if you do not want anyone left in this game after the update. Which to me shows that you care more about yourself and your ELITE team to give a crap about the other coaches.

Dac I will say I am not talking to you with this, we have had a great rivalry and I understand what you are saying and you are not completely negative. It is good to have thoughts and communicate those thoughts as you do constructively.

Final remarks:

I just feel that keeping it to yourself and to the BETA forums is better use of your time and frankly energy. You are just making yourselves look like trash.

curious Maxmet..why leave if "the new game will be better than the beta - I am confident" I am not sure it will be am legitimately curious why two confusing stances

"Personally I think that they are being very generous allowing you to vent about the beta. Any other organization would have repercussions for those types of actions."}
You have got to be sheeting me...They are a company, We are CUSTOMERS.....some of you act this product is FAVOR from a CULT

please dont tell me or others not to vent or express views

and please dont say that WIS has done a great thing by listening DURING the beta

WIS systematically ignored this produce and ignored a host of useful and reasonable small suggestions over a period of years

I am peaved that WIS made the decision to ignore customer input, that they made the decision to ignore marketing and that they picked THIS approach as the next step for a game I really like.

You are entitled to feel that people should keep their opinions to themselves- and I am entitled to express the opinion that they should say whatever they want to say as customers.

Posted by taniajane on 6/14/2016 6:04:00 PM (view original):
curious Maxmet..why leave if "the new game will be better than the beta - I am confident" I am not sure it will be am legitimately curious why two confusing stances

I'm confident better than the beta - but for me I dont think it will be better than the current game. I think it will be more time consuming and less satisfying for me

Posted by mamxet on 6/14/2016 6:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by taniajane on 6/14/2016 6:04:00 PM (view original):
curious Maxmet..why leave if "the new game will be better than the beta - I am confident" I am not sure it will be am legitimately curious why two confusing stances

I'm confident better than the beta - but for me I dont think it will be better than the current game. I think it will be more time consuming and less satisfying for me

Ok thanks MetMax...I share same conclusion though not as sure about being better than the Betta...I think the fixes will be just as much of a problem as the ones they attempt to fix given the rush job they seem to be doing

Thank you, obit, although I feel you may be giving me too much credit as I have been fairly negative overall. I appreciate what the supporters are at, and I don't hold anything against 99% of those folks. Some I really (honestly) don't think have a clue about HD at anything but a rudimentary level, but then again I am not sure our developer knows much about playing the game at a high level either. (And I hope that doesn't offend him or anyone - it is simply my perception based on everything I've seen.)

I also realize that statistically there are probably a lot more coaches not playing the game at a very high level than those that are, so I can of course understand the business logic in trying to make the game more enjoyable for the most people - I just fear that I may be an outlier even if this all gets wrapped up into a fully functioning addition - I just don't have any fun in the new system so far, and it seems a big PITA - I am also particularly averse to change overall, and I realize this is affecting my outlook. (And, I will admit it - it seems quite likely that my MSU team will suffer from this, and it took a long time IRL to get here, so yes, I am upset that my "cheese is being moved" whatever the hell that means...)

I have occasionally posted some helpful bits publicly, but mostly I've not taken the time to log everything I see - but I have spent a great deal of time chatting with gillispie about things, and he is posting the more positive stuff (mostly his design and ideas) that arises from that, so in a small way I might be helping out I suppose.

I guess its clear to everyone now that this is a mixed bag currently, so I guess even responding to the overly positive at this point is moot and redundant and just "piling on," so I'll try to keep it in my pants more...

Obit, I think you are completely wrong about where the venting should be. The beta forums should actually be free from venting and more filled with problems found. Regardless if we like it or not, this game appears to be changing, so lets keep the beta forums open for addressing actual problems we find in the beta which is realistically the entire point of the beta. If there was ever a place to vent and/or give our opinions it is on this forum. This is where the guys who are not in the beta are asking questions about what to expect. Their opinions are formed based on who to believe and there are just as many positive posters as negative ones.

On a side note, anyone else notice a large majority of those who are negative have been in this game for a very long time, as in loyal customers for over 10 years for some. A lot (not all) of the positive posts are guys who are fairly newer, came in post potential.

Posted by poncho0091 on 6/14/2016 6:51:00 PM (view original):
Obit, I think you are completely wrong about where the venting should be. The beta forums should actually be free from venting and more filled with problems found. Regardless if we like it or not, this game appears to be changing, so lets keep the beta forums open for addressing actual problems we find in the beta which is realistically the entire point of the beta. If there was ever a place to vent and/or give our opinions it is on this forum. This is where the guys who are not in the beta are asking questions about what to expect. Their opinions are formed based on who to believe and there are just as many positive posters as negative ones.

On a side note, anyone else notice a large majority of those who are negative have been in this game for a very long time, as in loyal customers for over 10 years for some. A lot (not all) of the positive posts are guys who are fairly newer, came in post potential.

I agree...and choose to make comments here and let the game and problems there Hopefully help. Yes, many are from people that have played/paid for awhile (of course not all either way)