... stop being a ******* RACIST and just accept it.

as far as we know, he also never gambled on baseball

Nope.

As as much as I think Rose is totally overrated, Ichiro's NPB hits don't count.

Perhaps we should count Little League, high school and college hits.

Then again, there are a lot of Negro Leaguers in the the HOF and they never played in MLB.

So I now agree with SJP, if you don't see Ichiro as the hit king, you obviously hate the Japs. ******* RACISTS!!!!!!

I mean, to be fair, for the past 20 years or so NPB has by general consensus been probably a little bit stronger than AAA. So it's legitimately the 3rd-best baseball league in the world behind the AL and the NL. It's pretty darn good. But still, AAA hits never counted. But on the other hand, Federal League, Players' League, and American Association hits do count, and realistically speaking the gap between those leagues and the NL was probably close to as big as the gap between MLB and NPB. Heck, for it's first 10 or 15 years the AL was probably as far behind the NL as NPB is behind MLB at this point.

Icharo started playing in the Japanese league at 18. The first two seasons were (predictably) rough. From his age 20 season through age 26 season, he averaged - about like 120-125 games and averaged about 177 hits. If he made it to the majors at age 21, its not really unreasonable to think he could handle major league pitching. Its not unreasonable that he could have averaged 220 hits or so each season. And its not unreasonable to think he'd have the same hit total or more now.

Hell at age 28 he basically walked into the majors and was arguably the best hitter in baseball. And Pete played until he was 44.

And... AND BL might blow a nut when I say this, but Rose's last 5 seasons 1982 - 1986 he had 2469 PAs and a WAR of -2.6

Ichiro in his last 5 seasons has 2176 PAs (almost 3000 less than Rose) has a WAR of 4.5.

Seems like he's contributing at the end where Rose was kinda hanging on for the record. So if we're gonna take shots at Ichiro facing inferior pitching at the beginning of his career, we can surely temper that by knowing Rose was getting ABs he didn't deserve at the END of his career,

Posted by d_rock97 on 6/15/2016 10:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 6/15/2016 8:19:00 PM (view original):
I mean, to be fair, for the past 20 years or so NPB has by general consensus been probably a little bit stronger than AAA. So it's legitimately the 3rd-best baseball league in the world behind the AL and the NL. It's pretty darn good. But still, AAA hits never counted. But on the other hand, Federal League, Players' League, and American Association hits do count, and realistically speaking the gap between those leagues and the NL was probably close to as big as the gap between MLB and NPB. Heck, for it's first 10 or 15 years the AL was probably as far behind the NL as NPB is behind MLB at this point.

Yeah but guys that fail to make Big League clubs like Tuffy Rhodes, Wily Mo Peña, and Ryan Vogelsong can go over there and set records, well yeah, it shouldn't count the same with MLB.

- Ichiro is a better hitter than Rose ever was.
- What Ichiro did is impressive and defintely should be recognized.
- But Rose is still the hit King.



And also, I'd take the Winter League over NPB, just my opinion though

um, Vogelsong has a couple of WS rings and has had a decent ML career.

Posted by wylie715 on 6/16/2016 12:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 6/15/2016 10:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 6/15/2016 8:19:00 PM (view original):
I mean, to be fair, for the past 20 years or so NPB has by general consensus been probably a little bit stronger than AAA. So it's legitimately the 3rd-best baseball league in the world behind the AL and the NL. It's pretty darn good. But still, AAA hits never counted. But on the other hand, Federal League, Players' League, and American Association hits do count, and realistically speaking the gap between those leagues and the NL was probably close to as big as the gap between MLB and NPB. Heck, for it's first 10 or 15 years the AL was probably as far behind the NL as NPB is behind MLB at this point.

Yeah but guys that fail to make Big League clubs like Tuffy Rhodes, Wily Mo Peña, and Ryan Vogelsong can go over there and set records, well yeah, it shouldn't count the same with MLB.

- Ichiro is a better hitter than Rose ever was.
- What Ichiro did is impressive and defintely should be recognized.
- But Rose is still the hit King.



And also, I'd take the Winter League over NPB, just my opinion though

um, Vogelsong has a couple of WS rings and has had a decent ML career.

That was after a terrible career in the majors, somehow getting a job in Japan, having a decent couple of years in Japan, before the Giants took another shot at him, and now he's an average starter

average = decent

Posted by wylie715 on 6/16/2016 2:45:00 PM (view original):
average = decent

agreed.

Like I said. Icharo = hit King.