Posted by MikeT23 on 6/22/2016 4:05:00 PM (view original):
Fueled by 'roids.

Even if that were the case, he was still producing just fine when he broke the record.

They don't refer to it as the Consecutive Games Clean Streak. Games are games, yo

That's true. Just not sure why Ripken gets a 'roid pass.

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/22/2016 4:15:00 PM (view original):
That's true. Just not sure why Ripken gets a 'roid pass.

Can't speak for others, but I give everyone a pass until they test positive or admit they did it.

So, Ripken was a below average offensive player after he broke Gehrig's record. Not sure about his dWAR or UZR or JSFBjasd factors, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't so good in the field either.

Posted by toddcommish on 6/22/2016 4:35:00 PM (view original):
So, Ripken was a below average offensive player after he broke Gehrig's record. Not sure about his dWAR or UZR or JSFBjasd factors, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't so good in the field either.

He wasn't substantially worse than he was the rest of his career offensively. Just not sure why you think in year 14 of a 20 year career, he was already "hanging on." That seems to imply if he'd missed a game in 94 or 95, that he'd have retired once the streak was no longer attainable.

Oh, FFS, I was just using him as an example. If you're saying Ripken was a marginal ballplayer (granted, a tick above "just hanging on"), I'd still be interested how BAD some players were when they passed a career milestone or record.

Posted by toddcommish on 6/22/2016 4:42:00 PM (view original):
Oh, FFS, I was just using him as an example. If you're saying Ripken was a marginal ballplayer (granted, a tick above "just hanging on"), I'd still be interested how BAD some players were when they passed a career milestone or record.

My point with Ripken wasn't necessarily his stats. It was more so the fact that he passed that career milestone 6 years before his career ended. Hanging on implies he was just playing long enough to get that record.

Posted by toddcommish on 6/22/2016 4:42:00 PM (view original):
Oh, FFS, I was just using him as an example. If you're saying Ripken was a marginal ballplayer (granted, a tick above "just hanging on"), I'd still be interested how BAD some players were when they passed a career milestone or record.

Maybe we should look at the year or two before they got to the milestone.

Posted by bad_luck on 6/22/2016 4:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 6/22/2016 4:42:00 PM (view original):
Oh, FFS, I was just using him as an example. If you're saying Ripken was a marginal ballplayer (granted, a tick above "just hanging on"), I'd still be interested how BAD some players were when they passed a career milestone or record.

Maybe we should look at the year or two before they got to the milestone.

Fine, my point is that most longevity milestones/records are achieved by guys who are primarily TRYING TO REACH MILESTONES, and not necessarily the best possible players. Of course, the managers are partly to blame for this, as are the franchises who try to milk the chase for the record, and the dipwads at ESPN who interrupted programming to live broadcast Derek Jeter's bowel movements as he approached 3000 hits.

Posted by toddcommish on 6/22/2016 3:40:00 PM (view original):
His haircut is an ongoing embarrassment. And as others have pointed out, he was a BAD player by the time he broke the record. I'm sure his WAR was terrrible during his final chase of Ty Cobb.

Hey, maybe we can have the statheads look up which longevity or accumulation records are the most tainted by "hanging on"... Pete trying to pass Cobb, Ripken trying to pass Gehrig, Bonds trying to pass Aaron, Glavine trying to reach 300, RJ trying to reach 300, Jeter trying to reach 3000, etc.

I think Rose is the only good example you have in there, frankly...

Glavine had a 97 ERA+, basically a league-average starter, the year he got to 300 and went 13-8. I think we all know how Bonds was hitting as he approached and broke the record. Jeter got to 3000 in 2011 with an OPS+ of 100 - excellent for a SS - and then went out and put up a 114 OPS+ in 2012 and led the league in PAs. The year after he broke the record. Not exactly "hanging on." Ripken's already been discussed. I do think he would have been more effective if he'd taken games off. He hit poorly in the last 2 months of the season. I think playing every day had something to do with that. But he was by no means "hanging on," at least in a career sense.

Randy Johnson has the 2nd-best argument for being a hanger-on, but realistically, even though he was below average in his final season in 2009 as he made it to 300, he had been pretty good in 2008. I don't think he was ever retiring at the end of 2008 even if he already had 300 wins. If he had been going to, I have a hard time believing he would have rehabbed that rotator cuff to come back and pitch again at the end of the season after he had the record.

And almost every player, record/milestone chasing or not, hangs on as long as they can, usually past the point where they are any good.

I actually agree with you there. It just seems like stars (with their big paychecks) get a couple of highly paid, sub-standard years to close their careers. The middling players that hover around replacement level get cut quickly when the decline starts, but the stars have marketing appeal even when their skills dictate "give a kid a chance".

Bonds was basically blacklisted when he was still highly productive. I honestly didn't realize how productive Jeter was (but I'm a Jeter-hater) during his last seasons. I know RJ was terrible (he was on the Giants when he got #300) and Pete was pretty bad, and I was pretty sure Glavine was mediocre. Those were just the examples i came up with at the time.

Jeter was terrible his last season and somewhat respectable the next to last season. Quit being a RACIST!!!!!

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/22/2016 4:15:00 PM (view original):
That's true. Just not sure why Ripken gets a 'roid pass.

Beats me.

I also don't know why Jeter and Griffey get them. I'm pretty suspicious of all three of those guys.

I guess the rule is, if you're nice and friendly and people like you, nobody's gonna bring up the fact that you might have been a "cheater."

I am too. Jeter doesn't get a pass. Misses 40 games, more or less, with a shoulder separation and comes back and has his best power year. How odd.