Great points emy. There are changes that can be made to make this newhd viable but why not just make adjustments from the current system to better the current game? Many of these ideas could have been added to better the game instead of overhauling the game. I think the lack of visibility hurts a lot too. Concerns have been ignored for years and then sweeping changes that will produce a range of unintended consequences. It makes you wonder if WIS has a solid handle on the user experience.

Posted by viva_il_re on 6/26/2016 2:40:00 PM (view original):
here's sebles quote on the update backlash and population drops

Any time there is a major update, many people threaten to leave, and some do. The goal is to make the game better, and hope that the improved experience attracts more new people and brings back those that quit if they're willing to give it a chance.

We're very used to backlash, it's part of the job.

So nothing on attracting new coaches besides having the game be better(no mention of advertising) and basically just hoping coaches who quit come back and like the game so maybe inflate the numbers for a few seasons until they leave again.

Also seeing what is going on and the talk of all the other updates being done so poorly maybe backlash wouldn't be part of the job if you did a good job on it.

I'd still love to see an explanation on why the updates that are being implemented were chosen I've never seen anyone ask for any of this.

At best they are trying to fix some problems by adding barriers to information instead of actually fixing the problems

Signed basketball sim and gd

oh yes i forgot we are working torwards the GD model where we have empty divisions and half the ranked teams are sim and where 2-3 coaches win the NC over and over for 10+ seasons until they get bored and leave.

I don't think BETA is as bad as you guys make it to be. There is a lot of things to fix but I see Seble having an open mind. I think it's already a lot better than during season 1, will need to continue trying our best to make it as ready as possible and hope they do not go too fast. One thing Emy said has me worried also : 4 to 8 weeks hiatus is way too long.

Posted by viva_il_re on 6/26/2016 2:40:00 PM (view original):
here's sebles quote on the update backlash and population drops

Any time there is a major update, many people threaten to leave, and some do. The goal is to make the game better, and hope that the improved experience attracts more new people and brings back those that quit if they're willing to give it a chance.

We're very used to backlash, it's part of the job.

So nothing on attracting new coaches besides having the game be better(no mention of advertising) and basically just hoping coaches who quit come back and like the game so maybe inflate the numbers for a few seasons until they leave again.

Also seeing what is going on and the talk of all the other updates being done so poorly maybe backlash wouldn't be part of the job if you did a good job on it.

I'd still love to see an explanation on why the updates that are being implemented were chosen I've never seen anyone ask for any of this.

At best they are trying to fix some problems by adding barriers to information instead of actually fixing the problems

So in Seble's own words, they are banking on "hope" to have the game succeed instead of things like, I don't know, advertising? Marketing? Anything besides crossing fingers and hoping.

Really, that's quite an amateur answer that pretty much says that they don't care about long time customers leaving. You know, the ones keeping the game afloat as it is. I'm not sure that they are actually reaching their goal of "making the game better" with this one. I've seen very few posts that claim to like BOTH the new scouting AND recruiting. Add to that, coaches are already dropping teams, conferences are already beginning to empty out, more games against Sim teams. Wow. ;^(

Sometimes you have to see that backlash, realize that it might be more than just people "threatening to leave", open your eyes and see that they ARE leaving and just bite the bullet, swallow your pride and stubbornness, and just call it what it is.....an idea that looked good on paper but just isn't a good fit in reality.

Posted by zorzii on 6/26/2016 3:00:00 PM (view original):
I don't think BETA is as bad as you guys make it to be. There is a lot of things to fix but I see Seble having an open mind. I think it's already a lot better than during season 1, will need to continue trying our best to make it as ready as possible and hope they do not go too fast. One thing Emy said has me worried also : 4 to 8 weeks hiatus is way too long.

Agreed to an extent. Not giving up yet but hope that there is some more movement to alleviate issues. Hopefully through time those issues become more obvious. For it to be successful we probably need 7+ seasons to ensure that it is smooth

Posted by therewas47 on 6/26/2016 3:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 6/26/2016 3:00:00 PM (view original):
I don't think BETA is as bad as you guys make it to be. There is a lot of things to fix but I see Seble having an open mind. I think it's already a lot better than during season 1, will need to continue trying our best to make it as ready as possible and hope they do not go too fast. One thing Emy said has me worried also : 4 to 8 weeks hiatus is way too long.

Agreed to an extent. Not giving up yet but hope that there is some more movement to alleviate issues. Hopefully through time those issues become more obvious. For it to be successful we probably need 7+ seasons to ensure that it is smooth

Two things that I just don't, one may be a programmer issue that is over my head though. (1) Why, oh why, oh why, is Seble in such a damn rush to get this thing out? TW47, I agree with you but were I in charge, I'd probably run 9 or 10 at a minimum. What's the rush? We haven't seen sight nor heard sound of Seble for the better part of three years and all of a sudden we're in a rush NOW?

(2) I'm not sure why all the worlds have to be stopped, then implemented, then staggered as they start back up? We never had to do that with potential. In fact, since I've been playing we've never had to do anything like that. Maybe a one or two day break for site maintenance but nothing even close to stopping worlds for a month, month and a half.

Emy-1) I don't understand the rush either. I imagine it's due to lack of available time but I'd rather have it fixed now than after implementation. Like I said, I don't understand the wholesale change over a series of adjustments approach. There would be much less backlash if say some of the preferences were added, the effect of prestige was lessened, or attention points were added (the best idea in the update. Love them). Doing everything at once doesnt seem like a good approach from a user retention standpoint.
2) I've said the pausing of worlds for more than a week or two is a pretty awful idea.

Added: has anyone figured out how splitting up scouting and recruiting budgets increases strategy ?
edit: also glad that who a recruit is considering is listed on the targets page. That was a necessary addition

I also have a problem with seble's answer there. an improved experience is moot if no one knows about it. even if the new game was 100% perfect, a percentage of coaches would leave simply because they don't want to put the time in to learn a new system. this should be entirely expected (as seble stated). BUT then you have to have a plan in place to get the game out there and attract new users. if seble (or someone else working for WIS) hasn't done this or isn't planning on crafting some kind of marketing/PR push before the rollout, it's incredibly foolish. i know developers aren't PR people, but come on, you have to be able to think big picture.

also, the 4-8 weeks thing is ludicrous. even if the game wasn't changing at all, I bet a 4-8 week stoppage of this game would cause at least a 20% attrition all on its own.

Found Seble's response very insulting. Sounds like someone can't see the ground from his high horse.

He just doesn't get it. This could be the best update in the history of games, and yet without a detailed marketing plan to attract new coaches, not just past coaches, it's going to seriously hurt the game.

You can actually just hit "not renew" and have the seasons waiting for you when you decide to come back, or when Seble is fired, whichever comes 1st.

He won't get fired. He is doing a fine job listening now... But I think he is no communication major or marketing major. He should leave it to the more politician workers on the job. Recruiting, with the new whenever, as soon as possible, and late, has been better. Scouting is still not my forte, but I am willing to learn. Will see.

the whole slew of problems came from seble not listening. I mean sure lets just ignore the forum consensus and deliver something out of the blue no one wanted... thats a great way to further increase the super strong relationship I have with the community.

I mean I thought seble was just out of touch with the game, but no he's clueless saying **** like "you'll always have those against it and strong backlash" maybe if you did **** up so bad there wouldn't be so much backlash he is completely delusional.

I know I posted a novel length rant yesterday, so I'm not going to repeat anything like that again, don't worry. But the more I thought about his response the more I felt like it was just a slap in the face to many of us long time customers. Very arrogant, very condescending. Basically telling us the paying customer, "If you don't like it, leave". That's paraphrased of course and it's also just bad business.

I also find it very ironic that Seble is being so open and receptive to ideas with this new update. Had he been as receptive and open for the past several years, we very likely could have had many of the issues that people are complaining about now fixed way back when. Months and months of nothing but deafening silence while many of the very smart coaches who play this game told him about not only having problems in the game that needed to be fixed, but also gave him very good suggestions on the actual fixes. But it was like talking to a brick wall.

But now, when we get an update that virtually NO ONE was asking for, the back and forth is wide open and off the charts. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make a damn bit of sense. Had we had this kind of open dialogue for the last couple of years, then maybe this update would be appropriate because all (or at least most) of the more important problems that we've been bringing up would have been fixed by now. This update we're having forced upon us just screams "out of touch with the game, out of touch with the customers". The game is teetering on the brink Seble. Will you pull it back and save it or will you push it over the edge? From here, it looks like you're pushing, not pulling.