and I thought we were in the actual discussion forum and not the troll thread.

"From what I see in the beta, the ranking system for recruits is pretty screwed up, and only a tiny handful of worthwhile recruits have actually fallen through the cracks. D3 coaches get a crack at them only if all D1 coaches allow them to fall. D3 coaches, with their severely limited budgets, cannot ever take a recruit from a D1 school unless the D1 school allows it. Do you really think in this context that there are "too many" worthwhile recruits falling to D3?"

What the experienced coaches in BETA are concerned about is balanced play. The current set up limits the types of players DIII teams and DII teams can get. You don't want a handful of DII/DIII coaches being able to manipulate the system to create rosters that are not competitive with other coaches. So even if a few drop, it could ruin the balance in those divisions. Contrary to what YOU think, the DI coaches don't care about not getting the players that drop to DIII, we are concerned with creating an unfair situation in DII/DIII.

Back in the day a few coaches figured out how to pull down DI talent onto their DI rosters. Although you may applaud them for their ingenuity, it created rosters that could not be beaten for several seasons. That's not good for HD.

wait you mean people against the beta aren't just trying to get themselves into the best situation possible like certain coaches who are for the beta!? gasp

Posted by mullycj on 6/27/2016 10:51:00 AM (view original):
In general here is my opinion with what is wrong with BETA. Most HD players don't want to feel like they are getting screwed. In poker you remember the bad beats much more than when you pull a river card out your ***.

Two of the best things Seble has done is
1) The projection report. Why? Teams that felt they were getting screwed out of the NT based on their RPI now could see where they stand every day. Teams that felt they were screwed out of a certain seed could see where they now stand. Seble removed ambiguity, well done.
2) Draft big board. Why? Coaches would get about EEs on players they thought would never go. Now they can see all season the chances of players leaving early. There is still a random effect, but much more is out in the open. Seble removed unpleasant suprises, well done.

BETA?? Goes in the opposite direction from all of that. Seble has reintroduced randomness and ambiguity into recruiting. NOW teams that are BEHIND in recruiting can win a recruit. NOW we really don't know where we stand with a recruit. Some people like the cloudiness. I will content MOST HD players do not like the randomness. We don't like BAD BEATS. I don't think Seble gets this.

Really well said! I agree 100%.

Posted by cubcub113 on 6/29/2016 1:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 6/27/2016 10:51:00 AM (view original):
In general here is my opinion with what is wrong with BETA. Most HD players don't want to feel like they are getting screwed. In poker you remember the bad beats much more than when you pull a river card out your ***.

Two of the best things Seble has done is
1) The projection report. Why? Teams that felt they were getting screwed out of the NT based on their RPI now could see where they stand every day. Teams that felt they were screwed out of a certain seed could see where they now stand. Seble removed ambiguity, well done.
2) Draft big board. Why? Coaches would get about EEs on players they thought would never go. Now they can see all season the chances of players leaving early. There is still a random effect, but much more is out in the open. Seble removed unpleasant suprises, well done.

BETA?? Goes in the opposite direction from all of that. Seble has reintroduced randomness and ambiguity into recruiting. NOW teams that are BEHIND in recruiting can win a recruit. NOW we really don't know where we stand with a recruit. Some people like the cloudiness. I will content MOST HD players do not like the randomness. We don't like BAD BEATS. I don't think Seble gets this.

Really well said! I agree 100%.

Agree as well. Well put mully -- you put your finger on one of the things that's really been bothering me about the beta.

Posted by johnsensing on 6/29/2016 1:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 6/29/2016 1:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 6/27/2016 10:51:00 AM (view original):
In general here is my opinion with what is wrong with BETA. Most HD players don't want to feel like they are getting screwed. In poker you remember the bad beats much more than when you pull a river card out your ***.

Two of the best things Seble has done is
1) The projection report. Why? Teams that felt they were getting screwed out of the NT based on their RPI now could see where they stand every day. Teams that felt they were screwed out of a certain seed could see where they now stand. Seble removed ambiguity, well done.
2) Draft big board. Why? Coaches would get about EEs on players they thought would never go. Now they can see all season the chances of players leaving early. There is still a random effect, but much more is out in the open. Seble removed unpleasant suprises, well done.

BETA?? Goes in the opposite direction from all of that. Seble has reintroduced randomness and ambiguity into recruiting. NOW teams that are BEHIND in recruiting can win a recruit. NOW we really don't know where we stand with a recruit. Some people like the cloudiness. I will content MOST HD players do not like the randomness. We don't like BAD BEATS. I don't think Seble gets this.

Really well said! I agree 100%.

Agree as well. Well put mully -- you put your finger on one of the things that's really been bothering me about the beta.

yep its just insanity to throw away the old engine for a random, problem filled (it would take literally years not WIS years to correct the faults this one will have) new one and expect many to wait 4-8 weeks for it to come out.

thank you gentlemen

Without some level of ambiguity the game becomes a math problem. Which, I think, they are trying to get away from because while it may appeal to the current successful owners, it does not appeal to the masses. My guess, and this is a guess, is that the player retention rate for HD is pretty low and they are trying to appeal to, what they think, the majority of potential customers want, and not what the currently successful coaches want.

I mean, I am sure they are trying to retain us but I think they are trying to make the game more attractive to people who don't want to run spreadsheets for recruiting.

Posted by mullycj on 6/29/2016 12:52:00 PM (view original):
"From what I see in the beta, the ranking system for recruits is pretty screwed up, and only a tiny handful of worthwhile recruits have actually fallen through the cracks. D3 coaches get a crack at them only if all D1 coaches allow them to fall. D3 coaches, with their severely limited budgets, cannot ever take a recruit from a D1 school unless the D1 school allows it. Do you really think in this context that there are "too many" worthwhile recruits falling to D3?"

What the experienced coaches in BETA are concerned about is balanced play. The current set up limits the types of players DIII teams and DII teams can get. You don't want a handful of DII/DIII coaches being able to manipulate the system to create rosters that are not competitive with other coaches. So even if a few drop, it could ruin the balance in those divisions. Contrary to what YOU think, the DI coaches don't care about not getting the players that drop to DIII, we are concerned with creating an unfair situation in DII/DIII.

Back in the day a few coaches figured out how to pull down DI talent onto their DI rosters. Although you may applaud them for their ingenuity, it created rosters that could not be beaten for several seasons. That's not good for HD.

Well said. How many years of experience have gone into balancing HD, about 14? This new game pretty much rejects all that progress and implies the game was better imbalanced within divisions.

You maybe right Joe...but they will lose way more customers than they will ever gain with their usual marketing. Honestly I never took the time to break out spread sheets (or possibly even had the ability) in the current game. This new one might as well have something exciting such as a simulated dice roll for everything in it.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 6/29/2016 2:03:00 PM (view original):
Without some level of ambiguity the game becomes a math problem. Which, I think, they are trying to get away from because while it may appeal to the current successful owners, it does not appeal to the masses. My guess, and this is a guess, is that the player retention rate for HD is pretty low and they are trying to appeal to, what they think, the majority of potential customers want, and not what the currently successful coaches want.

I mean, I am sure they are trying to retain us but I think they are trying to make the game more attractive to people who don't want to run spreadsheets for recruiting.

You don't know why player retention rate is low. Maybe the game is already to complex and difficult to understand.
Adding randomness and ambiguity certainly WONT help the new users. Because even when they are doing something right, they can end up screwed and have no idea why.

I just don't agree with you mully.

wait you mean a game is just a bunch of math formula's!? jesus christ what the hell did you expect? its a game not real life.

I'd rather have a bunch of numbers that make sense that just throwing everything in the air and making it a bunch of random guesses!!!


oh and great ******* response "I don't agree with you" good job you really convinced me

I disagree with you too.

I think uncertainty and texture are generally good things.

Burdensome manual operations without the benefit of tools like filters are bad

randomness that deters successful analysis is a problem.

There is a difference between uncertainty - esp with parameters that let you have a sense of the odds - and pure randomness....