I'm sure the Seattle broadcasters think Alvin Davis and Bruce Bochte should be HOFers too.

And Dave Valle was much much better than Dan Wilson.

Posted by sjpoker on 6/28/2016 12:01:00 PM (view original):
Here's a question, and I really am not sure what the answer is.

Was Molina's game calling reputation primarily his own, or was he a product of that team.

I know, all catchers are a product of the coaching, pitching, and their own talents. Its just that I look at Carlos Ruiz, and while he did have some very good pitchers, he earned his reputation handling the younger or more mediocre ones. And guys like Lee, Hamels, and Halladay swear by him.

Was Molina in that same class as a game manager?

I would take Molina over Ruiz, but it's so hard to say. What I know is that pitchers seem to pitch better for the Phillies and the Cardinals than they do for teams they play for before or after. How much of that has to do with the catcher and how much with the pitching coach is virtually impossible to differentiate.

Agreed. Molina's case - to me - rests solely on his reputation as a game manager and defensive player. He's been a GGer like 7 or 8 years. His hitting has been decent for a catcher, but he's no where near the class of a Carter, Piazza, or IRod.

Posted by Got_Worms on 6/28/2016 2:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 6/28/2016 1:42:00 PM (view original):
I don't think the link has ever been strong enough that it will keep him out. Piazza had rumblings associated with him and got in.

We'll find out next year!

I'm not saying he should be there or shouldn't, but I don't think he gets in.

I do. I don't think it's all that close. Maybe 88%.

Yeah, I think Pudge gets in no problem. And he deserves to.

It may take a year or two but I don't see anyway Pudge R. doesn't make it.

He's a first ballot no-doubter to me. No heavy link to steroids and one of the best all-around catchers ever.

Pudge will get in. How can he not?

Another vote for including Pudge here.

Posted by combalt on 6/28/2016 9:08:00 PM (view original):
It may take a year or two but I don't see anyway Pudge R. doesn't make it.

PED suspicion. I know someone mentioned Piazza but he was good with the media. Not so much for Pudge. Plus Pudge came from the Texas Roiders where about half the team has admitted to usage.

I'm pretty sure he gets in but I can see a scenario where he gets to wait awhile.

Posted by Jtpsops on 6/28/2016 9:54:00 PM (view original):
He's a first ballot no-doubter to me. No heavy link to steroids and one of the best all-around catchers ever.

Pretty sure he was mentioned in Canseco's book. Plus, Pudge, Palmeiro, and Juan Gone "exploded" right after Canseco was traded to the Rangers in 1992.

IMO, Canseco is the only player that has been honest about PED usage.

I think if he does het in, it will be a few years. I'm not sure he will make it though. That's not to say he doesn't deserve to be in, just that many of the people who vote are idiots.

IROD didn't break any big records or anything. He won 13 gold gloves. Yes, the roids helped with durability, but how did they help him beyond that?

And when I ask that, I mean in the context where roids might have helped Piazza.

Do you think you have to break records to benefit from being PED-enhanced stronger?

Say his hitting was more Molina-like. Are you sure he gets in? Or are we having the same discussion about Pudge?