when you say Molina-like, which Molina do you mean? Yadier? Benjie? Jose? Some other Molina we don't know about?

OK, short attention span, who the **** is this thread about?

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/29/2016 1:47:00 PM (view original):
Do you think you have to break records to benefit from being PED-enhanced stronger?

Say his hitting was more Molina-like. Are you sure he gets in? Or are we having the same discussion about Pudge?

I'm taking it from a perception thing related to the voters. what I have read is that they resented McGuire, Sosa, and the rest of them because their PED use allowed them to demolish records that were long standing ones.

I Rod didn't break any records outside of some longevity records or the number of gold gloves he won. I'm sure his hitting is important but if he hit .275/.320/.420 instead of his actual career splints, I'm sure he'd still be considered. So yeah I think he will make it in. I think that any perceived benefit from his possible PED use will be ignored because he didn't hit 500 HRs.

Molina has 8 GGs. Only Bench and I Rod have more. He's 33. his splits are decent but not at the level of Bench or I Rod. But if he hits 10 GGs, which he is bound to do, as long as he doesn't regress too much I think he makes it too.

Curious Mike -

Whats your thoughts on Yadir Molina vs Thurman Munson.

Posted by sjpoker on 6/29/2016 6:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/29/2016 1:47:00 PM (view original):
Do you think you have to break records to benefit from being PED-enhanced stronger?

Say his hitting was more Molina-like. Are you sure he gets in? Or are we having the same discussion about Pudge?

I'm taking it from a perception thing related to the voters. what I have read is that they resented McGuire, Sosa, and the rest of them because their PED use allowed them to demolish records that were long standing ones.

I Rod didn't break any records outside of some longevity records or the number of gold gloves he won. I'm sure his hitting is important but if he hit .275/.320/.420 instead of his actual career splints, I'm sure he'd still be considered. So yeah I think he will make it in. I think that any perceived benefit from his possible PED use will be ignored because he didn't hit 500 HRs.

Molina has 8 GGs. Only Bench and I Rod have more. He's 33. his splits are decent but not at the level of Bench or I Rod. But if he hits 10 GGs, which he is bound to do, as long as he doesn't regress too much I think he makes it too.

Rafael Palmeiro?

Posted by sjpoker on 6/29/2016 6:13:00 PM (view original):
Curious Mike -

Whats your thoughts on Yadir Molina vs Thurman Munson.

Molina is a better player. But Munson has been dead for 40 years so there's that. On their careers, I take Munson all day. I'm not sure how much catcher defense is attributable to the player as has been mentioned.

The 44% career caught stealing rate (compared to 28% for the rest of the league) is largely attributed to him. Pitchers definitely matter for that, too. But the #1 thing is the catcher's arm. And he has a huge one. The 55 career pickoffs are also a huge number and attest to that arm. The only guys I know of with more are Pudge and Bob Boone (though there are likely more; I don't know of anywhere where you can sort career leaders in pickoffs).

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/29/2016 8:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 6/29/2016 6:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/29/2016 1:47:00 PM (view original):
Do you think you have to break records to benefit from being PED-enhanced stronger?

Say his hitting was more Molina-like. Are you sure he gets in? Or are we having the same discussion about Pudge?

I'm taking it from a perception thing related to the voters. what I have read is that they resented McGuire, Sosa, and the rest of them because their PED use allowed them to demolish records that were long standing ones.

I Rod didn't break any records outside of some longevity records or the number of gold gloves he won. I'm sure his hitting is important but if he hit .275/.320/.420 instead of his actual career splints, I'm sure he'd still be considered. So yeah I think he will make it in. I think that any perceived benefit from his possible PED use will be ignored because he didn't hit 500 HRs.

Molina has 8 GGs. Only Bench and I Rod have more. He's 33. his splits are decent but not at the level of Bench or I Rod. But if he hits 10 GGs, which he is bound to do, as long as he doesn't regress too much I think he makes it too.

Rafael Palmeiro?

Same thing. Palmiero in Chicago was basically Mark Grace. After, he became Babe Ruth,

One of the gripes I heard about Pudge was that he only wanted to call fastballs with runners on. I have no idea if that was true but it's something that was said. No idea if that applies to Molina but fastballs certainly help with CS%.

Posted by sjpoker on 6/29/2016 9:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/29/2016 8:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 6/29/2016 6:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/29/2016 1:47:00 PM (view original):
Do you think you have to break records to benefit from being PED-enhanced stronger?

Say his hitting was more Molina-like. Are you sure he gets in? Or are we having the same discussion about Pudge?

I'm taking it from a perception thing related to the voters. what I have read is that they resented McGuire, Sosa, and the rest of them because their PED use allowed them to demolish records that were long standing ones.

I Rod didn't break any records outside of some longevity records or the number of gold gloves he won. I'm sure his hitting is important but if he hit .275/.320/.420 instead of his actual career splints, I'm sure he'd still be considered. So yeah I think he will make it in. I think that any perceived benefit from his possible PED use will be ignored because he didn't hit 500 HRs.

Molina has 8 GGs. Only Bench and I Rod have more. He's 33. his splits are decent but not at the level of Bench or I Rod. But if he hits 10 GGs, which he is bound to do, as long as he doesn't regress too much I think he makes it too.

Rafael Palmeiro?

Same thing. Palmiero in Chicago was basically Mark Grace. After, he became Babe Ruth,

But he didn't break any big records.

Ok, Mike he didn't break big records. But he did compile stats most people are certain he wouldn't have if he didn't roid. The return is obvious in in everyones faces.

For Pudge I do not think that is the case. He didn't have any eye popping numbers at bat, although they were pretty good for a catcher.

So you're changing your argument, BLPOKER?

What I am trying to say is that IRod will get a pass because he has no clear benefit from supposed PED usage. The others do.

Scrap the break big records statement.

Except for Palmeiro.

Posted by sjpoker on 6/30/2016 8:26:00 AM (view original):
What I am trying to say is that IRod will get a pass because he has no clear benefit from supposed PED usage. The others do.

Scan the break big records statement.

Nobody is getting a pass when it comes to PED use. There is no reason it should've taken four tries for Piazza to get elected to the HOF!!

Ask Jeff Bagwell how steroid rumors unfairly keep worthy players out of the HOF.