BL is back in 'me against the world' mode. He loves to be there. I will say he's right. Steroids do in fact promote muscle growth independently. The problem with BL's argument (because he never actually played sports) is that NO ONE took steroids and DIDN'T work out in sports. Why would you? The gain of steroids without working out is nearly negligible. Working out and cycling gives you a massive boost.

As for amphetamines vs steroids, big difference. I'm not going to bother explaining it. I suspect BL never took uppers or an 8 ball so he's probably equally clueless in that arena as well.

Posted by sjpoker on 7/26/2016 9:34:00 PM (view original):
BL is back in 'me against the world' mode. He loves to be there. I will say he's right. Steroids do in fact promote muscle growth independently. The problem with BL's argument (because he never actually played sports) is that NO ONE took steroids and DIDN'T work out in sports. Why would you? The gain of steroids without working out is nearly negligible. Working out and cycling gives you a massive boost.

As for amphetamines vs steroids, big difference. I'm not going to bother explaining it. I suspect BL never took uppers or an 8 ball so he's probably equally clueless in that arena as well.

Played college baseball.

Never used steroids.

Have used amphetamines.

Posted by bad_luck on 7/26/2016 9:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 7/26/2016 9:34:00 PM (view original):
BL is back in 'me against the world' mode. He loves to be there. I will say he's right. Steroids do in fact promote muscle growth independently. The problem with BL's argument (because he never actually played sports) is that NO ONE took steroids and DIDN'T work out in sports. Why would you? The gain of steroids without working out is nearly negligible. Working out and cycling gives you a massive boost.

As for amphetamines vs steroids, big difference. I'm not going to bother explaining it. I suspect BL never took uppers or an 8 ball so he's probably equally clueless in that arena as well.

Played college baseball.

Never used steroids.

Have used amphetamines.

What was your WAR?

Probably 0. I only played freshman season.

Posted by dahsdebater on 7/26/2016 7:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 7/26/2016 4:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/26/2016 3:59:00 PM (view original):
So we shouldn't hold any PED users accountable pre-2003? Because that's when testing began.

And if your answer is yes, cool. Let's take McGwire off the PED user list.

McGwire should get a pass. That's why voters are stupid. As Mike has said, anyone who used PEDs prior to their being testing for them wasn't really guilty of anything. I don't see how people can say "That guy did something that wasn't against the rules of baseball at the time...BUT IT WAS WRONG! HE STILL CHEATED!"

If you do something that's not against the rules, it's not cheating. Whether a guy used PEDs and whether he broke the rules are two different things. When voters cry "He used PEDs!" they're implication is that player cheated, but if they used before testing/official rules were in place, then the player did nothing wrong.

What really gets me - and Mike and I have both pointed this out before - is that the older generations who denounce the steroid users and glorify the amphetamine crowd are the same generations who in the rest of their lives are huge proponents of the value of "hard work." The "work smart not hard" concept has been embraced by lots of younger people, but Baby Boomers and older are all about hard work. It was preached during the WW2-Vietnam era that if everybody worked hard things would go well and everybody would be able to feed their families and America would be great. And most people from that era still adhere to that value set quite strongly. But steroids are the "work hard" drug. Steroids just give you the ability to work out longer and harder and make yourself stronger by improving recovery. On the other hand, amphetamines are the "work smart" drug. The guys in the '60s would go out, party hard, stay up late, and then rely on the uppers to be able to focus and concentrate during the game. Not only that, amphetamines make you "stronger" merely by having them in your system by allowing your muscles to exert themselves more severely. How is it that the guys who want everybody to work hard and earn everything, the very same crowd who love to preach about how entitled "the young people" are, have no problem with a guy like Mantle who drank too much, slept too little, and relied on daily illegal drug use to keep his head in the game but have nearly endless hate for a guy like Bonds who had, by all accounts, a monster work ethic and put in borderline ridiculous gym time to be the best hitter in the game after his 40th birthday? It doesn't make any sense.

Until 1969, greenies were legal in the United States.

Well, there you go. Mick's off the hook. Aaron on the other hand...

Depends on when that one time he admitted taking them was.

Funny how some think McGwire is a HOFer, regardless.

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/26/2016 7:54:00 PM (view original):
I am the older generation. I just don't think a lot of people understand how steroids work. I've explained it multiple times but it doesn't stick. Anyway, 'roids aid recovery not growth. The growth comes because you work harder. And you're able to do that because the 'roids speed recovery.

Now, if you really want to bust balls, it's the pitchers. They work out but you don't see pitchers looking like Bonds/McGwire. Because having a huge upper body affects throwing. But, using the unconvicted Clemens as an example, getting jacked legs does help pitching. And you get the residual effect of recovery on the arm damage from pitching. If I have to explain how the arm is damaged from pitching, I can't help you.

So, yeah, if you've ever downed a Red Bull because you needed a kick start, you've taken a PED shortcut. Get off Bonds' balls.

I don't think it's the 'roids that cause people to get on Bonds. It's Bonds being a colossally arrogant ***** that causes people to get on Bonds. The steroids just gave them a good excuse to really heap it on.

It feels like a lot of people still loved Big Mac, even after it was common knowledge he used.

Posted by nockahoma on 7/26/2016 10:22:00 PM (view original):
Funny how some think McGwire is a HOFer, regardless.

Wrong venue, dude. I think there's maybe 1 other person who's posted in this thread who doesn't think McGwire is a HOFer. And maybe he does too. But I know I think he is, I know Mike thinks he is, I know JTP thinks he is, and I know bl thinks he is.

Posted by dahsdebater on 7/26/2016 11:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by nockahoma on 7/26/2016 10:22:00 PM (view original):
Funny how some think McGwire is a HOFer, regardless.

Wrong venue, dude. I think there's maybe 1 other person who's posted in this thread who doesn't think McGwire is a HOFer. And maybe he does too. But I know I think he is, I know Mike thinks he is, I know JTP thinks he is, and I know bl thinks he is.

McGwire is a HOFer in my opinion too.

Posted by Jtpsops on 7/26/2016 11:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/26/2016 7:54:00 PM (view original):
I am the older generation. I just don't think a lot of people understand how steroids work. I've explained it multiple times but it doesn't stick. Anyway, 'roids aid recovery not growth. The growth comes because you work harder. And you're able to do that because the 'roids speed recovery.

Now, if you really want to bust balls, it's the pitchers. They work out but you don't see pitchers looking like Bonds/McGwire. Because having a huge upper body affects throwing. But, using the unconvicted Clemens as an example, getting jacked legs does help pitching. And you get the residual effect of recovery on the arm damage from pitching. If I have to explain how the arm is damaged from pitching, I can't help you.

So, yeah, if you've ever downed a Red Bull because you needed a kick start, you've taken a PED shortcut. Get off Bonds' balls.

I don't think it's the 'roids that cause people to get on Bonds. It's Bonds being a colossally arrogant ***** that causes people to get on Bonds. The steroids just gave them a good excuse to really heap it on.

It feels like a lot of people still loved Big Mac, even after it was common knowledge he used.

The thing with Bonds is this. He was already a HOFer before he ever reportedly went on the stuff. He took it because he was jealous of the attention that McGwire and Sosa got.

Posted by bad_luck on 7/26/2016 9:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 7/26/2016 9:34:00 PM (view original):
BL is back in 'me against the world' mode. He loves to be there. I will say he's right. Steroids do in fact promote muscle growth independently. The problem with BL's argument (because he never actually played sports) is that NO ONE took steroids and DIDN'T work out in sports. Why would you? The gain of steroids without working out is nearly negligible. Working out and cycling gives you a massive boost.

As for amphetamines vs steroids, big difference. I'm not going to bother explaining it. I suspect BL never took uppers or an 8 ball so he's probably equally clueless in that arena as well.

Played college baseball.

Never used steroids.

Have used amphetamines.

Very limited life experience. Explains why you say a lot of the things you do with such certitude.

LOL. Another article at the bottom of BL's "Steroids make you stronger even if you don't work out" claim.

http://www.startersteps.caitlinburke.com/2014/10/12/caffeine-and-performance/


Seems the folks that write these articles believe caffeine allows you to train harder and longer.