Posted by gomiami1972 on 8/11/2016 6:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tarvolon on 8/11/2016 6:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by vandydave on 8/11/2016 4:44:00 PM (view original):
What I don't like is the arbitrarily decided new beta setup of HD itself, saying the issues are being worked on is one route, asking why those issues have even been created is a completely different question. I'll keep asking that question in different ways until I'm gone from HD.

And the answer is because the programmers thought it would be an improvement to the game that would help with new user retention. Whether that ends up being accurate or not is another question entirely, but that's the answer to your question

I will respectfully disagree, tarv. If the user base had been making generalized statements like "something is wrong with HD but we don't know what," then HD 3.0 would be perfectly plausible. However, veteran coaches have been complaining for years about specific issues, such as recruit generation, baseline prestige, etc. and HD 3.0, is an irrelevant response.

HD 3.0 is a diversion.

Every complaint you just listed as a D1 complaint and doesn't matter a whit to new users. Are they some of the biggest problems in the game from my perspective? Yes. But I'm also not a new user.

Seble has explicitly said that one of the biggest problems in the game is that when new users sign up, they usually just suck for a season or two and then leave. In-season recruiting, mobile friendly format, and a supposedly more intuitive system (seriously, how many people don't know what FSS is in their first season? Or gets confused by the "I wouldn't hold your breath" message into thinking they have no chance) is specifically designed to keep new users around longer. Now will it ultimately save the game if it's not coupled with a big marketing push? No. But there is a reason for it. And it might not succeed in what it was designed to do. But I think it's not too hard to see, based on Seble's comments and on trying to remember what it was like to not know anything, what it is intended to do

Posted by nachopuzzle on 8/11/2016 7:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by CoachSpud on 8/11/2016 7:00:00 PM (view original):
" ... veteran coaches have been complaining for years about specific issues, such as recruit generation, baseline prestige, etc. and HD 3.0, is an irrelevant response."

Close, very close. Some veteran coaches have been complaining for years that Seble doesn't change the game the way they want it. That many want something different and contradictory doesn't seem to factor in to the complaining. Some want this for recruit gen, some want that, some want something else, and some want no change. Just because Seble doesn't customize the game to satisfy every complaint doesn't signify a failure.

Okay, since you seem to know everything about this game and it's user-base, I got a question for you: Given that you've been a member of this website for only 10 months, then how the **** are you in a position to have a well formed opinion on the scope of veteran coach's discussions and consensus??? Especially, since all you've managed to do is make yourself a laughing stock in the process of your first 200 posts?

The long term board coaches have offered more meaningful suggestions/improvements over the years (which you would have no clue of), than the astonishing number of terrible ones you've proposed in your very short time here.

What...so called experts like you know any better??? Look were the "so called" climate experts got us...the coldest winters to date, laid-off coal miners being molested, and pristine marine wildlife reserves going undrilled. Secondly, I'm almost positive there is something in the bible about the most profound truths come from the minds of children.

Posted by tarvolon on 8/11/2016 6:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by vandydave on 8/11/2016 4:44:00 PM (view original):
What I don't like is the arbitrarily decided new beta setup of HD itself, saying the issues are being worked on is one route, asking why those issues have even been created is a completely different question. I'll keep asking that question in different ways until I'm gone from HD.

And the answer is because the programmers thought it would be an improvement to the game that would help with new user retention. Whether that ends up being accurate or not is another question entirely, but that's the answer to your question

Asking if the changes would retain new users is an important question, but is it a more important question than whether the changes would retain long-term loyal customers? If only there was some easy way wis could have gotten the pulse of its current long-term loyal customers before implementing the beta...

Wait a second. So they are rolling this out and still doing testing on it? Isn't that practically admitting "Hey, this isn't ready, we are still trying to make it work, but we'll let all the paying customers play the screwed up version until we fix it." I'm honestly ignorant as to if this is normal business practice but it just doesn't sit well. Do the testing, get the product to exactly what you want it to be, and then release it. Why the rush?

It's honestly recognizing that "no bugs" is an impossible goal for any new software. That's all.

No, it's the same crap you guys pulled with potential Mr. Undercover Admin guy, rolling it out way too early and having the paying customers finding the flaws that should have been found prior. Same ****, different update.

Posted by CoachSpud on 8/11/2016 7:59:00 PM (view original):
It's honestly recognizing that "no bugs" is an impossible goal for any new software. That's all.

If you honestly think that type of issue was what piman was talking about then you truly are either one of the most thick users that ever tried their hand at posting in the forums...or you're absolutely one of most disingenuous...either way it says a whole ******* lot.

Posted by tarvolon on 8/11/2016 7:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gomiami1972 on 8/11/2016 6:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tarvolon on 8/11/2016 6:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by vandydave on 8/11/2016 4:44:00 PM (view original):
What I don't like is the arbitrarily decided new beta setup of HD itself, saying the issues are being worked on is one route, asking why those issues have even been created is a completely different question. I'll keep asking that question in different ways until I'm gone from HD.

And the answer is because the programmers thought it would be an improvement to the game that would help with new user retention. Whether that ends up being accurate or not is another question entirely, but that's the answer to your question

I will respectfully disagree, tarv. If the user base had been making generalized statements like "something is wrong with HD but we don't know what," then HD 3.0 would be perfectly plausible. However, veteran coaches have been complaining for years about specific issues, such as recruit generation, baseline prestige, etc. and HD 3.0, is an irrelevant response.

HD 3.0 is a diversion.

Every complaint you just listed as a D1 complaint and doesn't matter a whit to new users. Are they some of the biggest problems in the game from my perspective? Yes. But I'm also not a new user.

Seble has explicitly said that one of the biggest problems in the game is that when new users sign up, they usually just suck for a season or two and then leave. In-season recruiting, mobile friendly format, and a supposedly more intuitive system (seriously, how many people don't know what FSS is in their first season? Or gets confused by the "I wouldn't hold your breath" message into thinking they have no chance) is specifically designed to keep new users around longer. Now will it ultimately save the game if it's not coupled with a big marketing push? No. But there is a reason for it. And it might not succeed in what it was designed to do. But I think it's not too hard to see, based on Seble's comments and on trying to remember what it was like to not know anything, what it is intended to do

Point taken.

I'm from the generation of new users from 3 years ago, for me it was Crum Season 63 in Sept 2013.

For me, i enjoy the game, and i try to strategize around the small handful of issues that i think are really sucky in HD. Many who joined when i did (or later) have dropped out of HD out of frustration with one or more of the same four major issues:

These issues are:

1. The 6 player recruiting classes getting 96k versus 32k or so (or 18k vs 6k, etc)
2. Owners having no incentive to challenge conference mates for recruits, and the perceived collusion that this leads to.
3. Poaching in the final cycle.
4. Cheating via scouting at a higher division and feeding information to your lower-division team... and a lack of confidence that honest owners are being protected from rampant cheating... a feeling that things are rigged.

I've mentioned these four things in past threads, and have been shouted down. But I'm telling you, these are the top reasons people have given me for either quitting (over the last 3 years) or not joining in the first place (like my brother, who i think correctly realized that Classic HD has some flaws).

So these are my honest thoughts on what i and others think are the top problems in Classic HD, especially with respect to new owner retention. I fully understand that people have other opinions, including some longtime veterans. In NuHD, these 4 issues will be addressed (well, cheating I'm not sure if you can eliminate that). Maybe not solved completely, but addressed and improved.

I think and hope that if most of us here stay for a couple of seasons once we roll over to NuHD, that we will come around to liking the changes. The Beta Test World was for experimenting, and none of us really tried outright to win divisions or make NT's, we had no stake in the game, and it made for dull seasons. A decently populated Beta World will i think actually be a lot of fun... 120 Div-1 Crum members jockeying and maneuvering during recruiting to me sounds like a cool exercise.

Anyway, that's where i stand.

* puts popcorn in microwave *

Posted by tarvolon on 8/11/2016 7:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gomiami1972 on 8/11/2016 6:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tarvolon on 8/11/2016 6:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by vandydave on 8/11/2016 4:44:00 PM (view original):
What I don't like is the arbitrarily decided new beta setup of HD itself, saying the issues are being worked on is one route, asking why those issues have even been created is a completely different question. I'll keep asking that question in different ways until I'm gone from HD.

And the answer is because the programmers thought it would be an improvement to the game that would help with new user retention. Whether that ends up being accurate or not is another question entirely, but that's the answer to your question

I will respectfully disagree, tarv. If the user base had been making generalized statements like "something is wrong with HD but we don't know what," then HD 3.0 would be perfectly plausible. However, veteran coaches have been complaining for years about specific issues, such as recruit generation, baseline prestige, etc. and HD 3.0, is an irrelevant response.

HD 3.0 is a diversion.

Every complaint you just listed as a D1 complaint and doesn't matter a whit to new users. Are they some of the biggest problems in the game from my perspective? Yes. But I'm also not a new user.

Seble has explicitly said that one of the biggest problems in the game is that when new users sign up, they usually just suck for a season or two and then leave. In-season recruiting, mobile friendly format, and a supposedly more intuitive system (seriously, how many people don't know what FSS is in their first season? Or gets confused by the "I wouldn't hold your breath" message into thinking they have no chance) is specifically designed to keep new users around longer. Now will it ultimately save the game if it's not coupled with a big marketing push? No. But there is a reason for it. And it might not succeed in what it was designed to do. But I think it's not too hard to see, based on Seble's comments and on trying to remember what it was like to not know anything, what it is intended to do

what exactly did they do besides just distract coaches from their sucking by making recruiting in season? they are still gonna suck from the beginning unless they take over a good team...

basic categories of beta supporters with examples

going to play regardless because its the only game:
ie Benis, budda?, chapel

new coach who has no idea what is happening:
ie casperthegm, ward?(who can tell tbh)

going to play because they suck and think the new game makes them better:
spud, iwanturmind, gigrant, echaney,noleanimal a bunch of others

somehow good at the game while sometimes making spud and wardo look like Einstein

chapel, tj

pretty much its "oh all the D1 coaches are mad the game is changing because the can't win anymore", no its nothing like that its the good d1 coaches who are mad are the ones who understand the game if it wasn't obvious and would welcome change if it was good, actually fixed problems, and didn't create more, didn't make it a time suck as well as make it very hard to run multiple teams, make it very luck dependent as well as pretty random/guessing.

but all the crappy coaches just use the same excuse oh all the good coaches are mad because the game wont be easy for them, like are you serious, if everyone who was ****** stayed and played the game it would be very nearly the same thing, the good coaches would wipe the floor with everyone and now they'd be doing it from mid/non majors and the elite D2/D3 coaches would make GD dynasties look pathetic.

Posted by ettaxpress on 8/12/2016 12:08:00 AM (view original):
screw you npb your a crap coach all those complaints are about whining that you suck at a coach lol, if those are the 4 biggest problems you and your "friends" have quit for then they either a) suck more than you at HD or b) have played under 10 seasons

of those 4 things they are either a) acusing other people of cheating, therefore and excuse for being a bad coach or b) not being on the same level as everyone at all times, ie again an excuse for being bad.

• blaming people for having 6 scholarships because they beat you when you have 1
• blaming people in strong conferences who have money to spread out recruiting and "cheat" by not battling for local prospects because surely all top conferences can sustain on just local talent
• blaming other people for your inability to manage money and be aware of the recruiting landscape in your area
• blaming people for cheating because that is the only way they are better than you.

I freaking hate mully's entitlement rants and anti-commie rants, but holy hell if there is anyone who thinks everyone should be on the exact same level and thinks everything needs to be handed to them because *they know* they are a better coach they are just disadvantage and everyone isn't following the rules of dibs.

My favorite part of your rants has always been that you write something crazy, and then you decide it needs editing (sometimes 3 ir 4 edits), yet you still leave in the crackpot stuff. Keep this up, seriously i love it, you're awesome, don't change.

my favorite parts are where you ignore me calling you a sucky player and make fun of my writing style, I'm pretty sure you have a near copy/paste from the last time I called your bs out/

go ahead and tell me its not true all four of those complaints are about other people "hindering" your ability to be good at the game, if you really think those are the four biggest problems with the game your as hopeless as spud.

this is what happens everytime someone who likes the beta posts happens, post some crap about whining about sucking, get called out for sucking or some bullcrap reason for why everyone should support the beta, then get mad when people call their crap out and change the topic and never bring it up because they don't have an answer

Posted by ettaxpress on 8/12/2016 12:23:00 AM (view original):
basic categories of beta supporters with examples

going to play regardless because its the only game:
ie Benis, budda?, chapel

new coach who has no idea what is happening:
ie casperthegm, ward?(who can tell tbh)

going to play because they suck and think the new game makes them better:
spud, iwanturmind, gigrant, echaney, a bunch of others

somehow good at the game while sometimes making spud and wardo look like Einstein

chapel, tj

pretty much its "oh all the D1 coaches are mad the game is changing because the can't win anymore", no its nothing like that its the good d1 coaches who are mad are the ones who understand the game if it wasn't obvious and would welcome change if it was good, actually fixed problems, and didn't create more, didn't make it a time suck as well as make it very hard to run multiple teams, make it very luck dependent as well as pretty random/guessing.

but all the crappy coaches just use the same excuse oh all the good coaches are mad because the game wont be easy for them, like are you serious, if everyone who was ****** stayed and played the game it would be very nearly the same thing, the good coaches would wipe the floor with everyone and now they'd be doing it from mid/non majors and the elite D2/D3 coaches would make GD dynasties look pathetic.

Awesome, cap off your night with a final diva-like rant, complete with a final run down the hall, and a slamming of the door behind you. Perfect, I'm totally going to miss this stuff whenever you finally decide to leave and stop posting whenever that will be.