The 52 Draft League - Rosters/Commentary Topic

savoybg
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I took The GREATEST DYNASTY in the HISTORY of TEAM SPORTS with the MOST HALL of FAMERS ever assembled on (1) team to (4) GAME 7’s that my team lost by a TOTAL of (9) points combined.

I have (5) NBA Playoff Records against this team that will NEVER be broken.

And even though NOBODY in the HISTORY of the NBA has defeated a Team that had (6) HOF’s on it in the playoffs…..
(Except for ME of course), These are the reasons why they say I’m NOT the GOAT…..

Go Figure……
WILT = GOAT

https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/323877284_567412601493160_7354511446465291648_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=J_Juw-ChxCoAX_Ie2Hp&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AfAwS5G2GtjMk-SOTvIRxtQ2T6oCR-1_TMWblcJYIb0kKw&oe=63B9991F
1/4/2023 1:04 AM
Midge
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So you’re saying Wilt is great because he lost four game sevens to the Celtics?
1/4/2023 1:53 AM
savoybg
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Posted by Midge on 1/4/2023 1:53:00 AM (view original):
So you’re saying Wilt is great because he lost four game sevens to the Celtics?
Because he was able to take them to 4 game sevens, and lose them all by a total of just 9 points. His 1967 team was the only team ever to knock the Russell Celtics out of the playoffs before the finals, and the only team to beat the Celts in a playoff series with a full strength Russell. The only other playoff series Russell ever lost was the 1958 finals when he was injured and played in just 4 of the 6 games, and just 137 minutes in the 4 games he played in.

In one series Wilt took a 40-40 team to game 7 against the mighty Celtics where they lost by one point. And people count that as a negative for Wilt, when he completely outplayed Russell in that series.





1/4/2023 2:11 AM
Midge
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You’re still celebrating the fact that he lost four game sevens. Yeah, sure he lost, but he was really good at losing.
1/4/2023 3:11 AM
beloud
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Sounds like savoybg is making a compelling argument for Wilt being almost as good as Russell :)
1/4/2023 3:46 AM
Midge
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The basic issue was that Wilt was obsessed with seeing how many points he could score and Bill Russell was obsessed with winning.
1/4/2023 3:51 AM
dontburnearl
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All I've seen is Savoybg try to justify a bad opinion with an unpersuasive, uncompelling argument.
1/4/2023 8:19 AM
riftonapple
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Russell couldn’t be obsessed with scoring because he sucked on offense. He had no O game.
He was the greatest defensive player ever, yet Wilt torched him all the time. That oughta tell u
something.
1/4/2023 8:46 AM
samuelyork93
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So I think it is all how you define great. Wilt put it this way once. "I know basketball is a team game, and you've already made Michael number one.But if you had to have Wilt against Michael. My prime and his prime. How much money would you be willing to bet?" And I have a hard time arguing against that. Wilt could be the greatest individual player ever. His records are never gonna be broken and I 100% believe he would have had the all time points record if he had continued to try being a scorer for the rest of his career. If you had all the NBA players on a "video game" and they all had ratings like in NBA 2K, Wilt would probably have the highest rating. If that's how you measure greatness then he's your goat.
However, basketball is a team sport and you win as a team not as an individual. That's where Bill Russell comes in. Wilt Chamberlain early on wanted Wilt Chamberlain to be great and he succeeded. Bill Russell wanted the Celtics to be great and he also succeeded. It all comes down to what matters to you more and for a lot of people team success matters more than individual accolades. And I think eventually team success mattered more to the Wilt himself.
I think it is interesting to look and Wilt and MJ for this idea. Their careers had a very similar trajectory. Early on they both wanted to be great individually as they saw themselves as the best on the court so it made sense that they should do all the......well everything. They had super high stats but no real team success. It wasn't until they both had a change of mind set that they began to win more and have better team success.
Now Jordan's numbers don't show this change as much but he admits to the change in mind set he had when Phil Jackson became coach in the last dance documentary if you haven't seen it. Wilt's shows in the numbers his change in mind set when he went to the 76ers. His Usage rate plummets from 34.6 to 18.5 in a matter of a season and a half and his assist rate sores to 17.1 from 7.8. His teams went from having a .506 winning percentage with the warriors to having a .709 winning percentage after the switch.
I will say I DO think Wilt was the most dominate player EVER (sorry Shaq) and had the highest ceiling for a player ever. HE was great but he didn't do what it took to make his TEAM great soon enough where Russell did. I think if he had a more team centric mind set earlier he might gain more respect from Russell enthusiasts.
Funny thing is I do put Wilt ahead of Russell but I think if Wilt had played more like Russell his entire career there would be no MJ Goat discussions because Wilt would be the clear cut number 1.
Drops mic*
1/4/2023 9:27 AM (edited)
ronsouth1
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Posted by samuelyork93 on 1/4/2023 9:27:00 AM (view original):
So I think it is all how you define great. Wilt put it this way once. "I know basketball is a team game, and you've already made Michael number one.But if you had to have Wilt against Michael. My prime and his prime. How much money would you be willing to bet?" And I have a hard time arguing against that. Wilt could be the greatest individual player ever. His records are never gonna be broken and I 100% believe he would have had the all time points record if he had continued to try being a scorer for the rest of his career. If you had all the NBA players on a "video game" and they all had ratings like in NBA 2K, Wilt would probably have the highest rating. If that's how you measure greatness then he's your goat.
However, basketball is a team sport and you win as a team not as an individual. That's where Bill Russell comes in. Wilt Chamberlain early on wanted Wilt Chamberlain to be great and he succeeded. Bill Russell wanted the Celtics to be great and he also succeeded. It all comes down to what matters to you more and for a lot of people team success matters more than individual accolades. And I think eventually team success mattered more to the Wilt himself.
I think it is interesting to look and Wilt and MJ for this idea. Their careers had a very similar trajectory. Early on they both wanted to be great individually as they saw themselves as the best on the court so it made sense that they should do all the......well everything. They had super high stats but no real team success. It wasn't until they both had a change of mind set that they began to win more and have better team success.
Now Jordan's numbers don't show this change as much but he admits to the change in mind set he had when Phil Jackson became coach in the last dance documentary if you haven't seen it. Wilt's shows in the numbers his change in mind set when he went to the 76ers. His Usage rate plummets from 34.6 to 18.5 in a matter of a season and a half and his assist rate sores to 17.1 from 7.8. His teams went from having a .506 winning percentage with the warriors to having a .709 winning percentage after the switch.
I will say I DO think Wilt was the most dominate player EVER (sorry Shaq) and had the highest ceiling for a player ever. HE was great but he didn't do what it took to make his TEAM great soon enough where Russell did. I think if he had a more team centric mind set earlier he might gain more respect from Russell enthusiasts.
Funny thing is I do put Wilt ahead of Russell but I think if Wilt had played more like Russell his entire career there would be no MJ Goat discussions because Wilt would be the clear cut number 1.
Drops mic*
i agree exactly with this sentiment (except he went to the Lakers). In my own mind Wilt was the greatest individual basketball player of all time. Thats my viewpoint and if you have another no problem i can see your viewpoint and its ok to disagree. Russell was a great player who I greatly admire.
1/4/2023 10:25 AM (edited)
Midge
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In the 1966-67 season, Wilt decided to become more of a team player instead of going for personal stats. His usage went down, his scoring efficiency and assist rate went up, and his team flourished. That 76ers team was one of the greatest NBA teams of all time.

Notice that in the two seasons that Wilt’s team won the NBA title, Wilt focused more on defense, rebounding and passing. In other words, in order to win he played more like Bill Russell.
1/4/2023 11:27 AM
Midge
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Posted by riftonapple on 1/4/2023 8:46:00 AM (view original):
Russell couldn’t be obsessed with scoring because he sucked on offense. He had no O game.
He was the greatest defensive player ever, yet Wilt torched him all the time. That oughta tell u
something.
I don’t agree that Wilt torched Russell all the time.

“Wilt: 28.7 points, 28.7 reboundsRuss: 14.5 points, 23.7 rebounds



Wilt’s record against Russell: 58–84Russ’s record against Wilt: 84–58



Wilt: 160 games, 22.5 points, 24.5 rebounds, 4.2 assists, 47% FT, 52% FGRuss: 165 games, 16.2 points, 24.9 rebounds, 4.7 assists, 60% FT, 43% FG”

Excerpt From
The Book of Basketball
Bill Simmons & Malcolm Gladwell
https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-book-of-basketball/id421585826
This material may be protected by copyright.
1/4/2023 11:36 AM
Midge
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“Wilt’s record in Game 7’s: 4–5Russ’s record in Game 7’s: 10–0



Wilt’s record in elimination games for his team: 10–11Russ’s record in elimination games for his team: 16–2



Wilt: 2 championshipsRuss: 11 championships

Excerpt From
The Book of Basketball
Bill Simmons & Malcolm Gladwell
https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-book-of-basketball/id421585826
This material may be protected by copyright.
1/4/2023 11:38 AM
savoybg
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Posted by Midge on 1/4/2023 3:11:00 AM (view original):
You’re still celebrating the fact that he lost four game sevens. Yeah, sure he lost, but he was really good at losing.
So the best player on the winning team is automatically better than the best player on the losing team?

Wilt didn't lose, his team lost. Russell didn't win, his team won. Take Wilt away and none of those teams ever gets to play the Celtics in the playoffs.

1/4/2023 11:54 AM
savoybg
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Posted by Midge on 1/4/2023 11:39:00 AM (view original):
“Wilt’s record in Game 7’s: 4–5Russ’s record in Game 7’s: 10–0



Wilt’s record in elimination games for his team: 10–11Russ’s record in elimination games for his team: 16–2



Wilt: 2 championshipsRuss: 11 championships

Excerpt From
The Book of Basketball
Bill Simmons & Malcolm Gladwell
https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-book-of-basketball/id421585826
This material may be protected by copyright.
Wilt and Russell do not have won/loss records. Those are team stats.
1/4/2023 11:55 AM
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