Quote: Originally posted by shapandrew7 on 11/18/2009

Quote: Originally posted by ashamael on 11/18/2009he has 2 finals, 1 'ship and a team that has currently the 2nd best record in the league in only 4 tries. Don't question his knowledge, shap.

Sorry, man. I will question anyone who rolls w/the Rodman, Moses, Peja, Ray, and Nashty combo. Don't respect it. Never will.

think u missed my sarcasm, bro.

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Haha. The problem is low shooting percentage players are overpriced. Seriously, you should get money back for adding Antoine Walker to your team. Then again, I almost stopped watching the NBA in protest when he was voted to an All-Star team.

The Sim (and real NBA if you break down the numbers) really comes down to TS% and possessions gained (steals+0.5 blocks+rebounds - turnovers). I feel non-rebounding possession stats are overpriced by the sim, so I focus on TS% and rebounding.

I sort players by those metrics and it gives me the players everyone picks. Rodman, Moses, and then Allen/Nash/Peja are super cheap for their TS and usage.

The teams I build around Stockton should theoretically beat the Nash teams due to so many extra possessions, but I haven't been able to figure why the Nash teams always do better.

have a cookie?

Quote: Originally Posted By tnbishop on 11/19/2009Haha. The problem is low shooting percentage players are overpriced. Seriously, you should get money back for adding Antoine Walker to your team. Then again, I almost stopped watching the NBA in protest when he was voted to an All-Star team.

The Sim (and real NBA if you break down the numbers) really comes down to TS% and possessions gained (steals+0.5 blocks+rebounds - turnovers). I feel non-rebounding possession stats are overpriced by the sim, so I focus on TS% and rebounding.

I sort players by those metrics and it gives me the players everyone picks. Rodman, Moses, and then Allen/Nash/Peja are super cheap for their TS and usage.

The teams I build around Stockton should theoretically beat the Nash teams due to so many extra possessions, but I haven't been able to figure why the Nash teams always do better.

I apologize for my ignorance but what exactly is TS % ?

TS%
True Shooting Percentage; the formula is PTS / (2 * (FGA + 0.44 * FTA)). True shooting percentage is a measure of shooting efficiency that takes into account field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws

Originally posted by ashamael on 11/18/2009

Quote: you still have no business leading the league in def fg%,

Amen to that.

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Whatif doesn't show TS%, you have to visit basketball-reference.com to see that.

For a simple comparison...

88 Jordan has a 61.4%
01 Iverson (MVP year) has a TS of 51.8%

Assuming both players take 30 shots (about where their usage is),

Jordan scores: 36.8 points
Iverson scores 31.1 points

Even discounting Jordan's superior possession and other numbers, 5.7 points is a huge margin to overcome. It's the difference between a team winning 65 and 45 games.

Iverson (and other low efficiency, bulk scorers) are vastly overrated by both the common fan and overpriced by the sim. You can't build a team around these types of players and hope to win.

This means people who want to win have a very small pool of players to select from. Those already mentioned in this thread, Barkley, Wilt, etc.

Very true bishop. I think the point is that WIS has the stat/price all wrong. They are "charging" high $ for stats that are worthless and vice versa. Giving away eFG% for example.
A simple recalc of stat/price could fix the sim overnight, or at least make it "new". No one questions that the cookie cutters are the best value in the sim.

Quote: Originally posted by tnbishop on 11/19/2009This means people who want to win have a very small pool of players to select from. Those already mentioned in this thread, Barkley, Wilt, etc.

I disagree and agree at the same time. The key is the rebounders - it's hard to build a competitive team without 40%+ oreb and 80%+ dreb, which is not that hard to get when you can get 36% oreb and 58% dreb in two guys (moses/rodman). There's only a few guys that have decent efg%, decent ftas and high reb percentages out there.

Efficient points from the perimeter, however, are amazingly easy to come by. There's a reason Pejasworth is so good, but there are better combinations out there and worse ones that will do just as good, mostly because the sim IS so random.

Peja is so good for many reasons. He combines:

* Super high TS - 29th all time for a 22.1+ usage full timer
* High 3 point rate - You have to go down to 169 on this list to pass him for 3P
* Real good (Steal - Turnover) number - You're not giving away tons of possessions like with Nash, Barkley, Walter Davis, etc

The 3 point rating is important because up-tempo increases the chance that shots go in. Increasing a 3point shot's accuracy has a greater effect on TS than a 2, which is a big reason the sim favors 3 point shooters.

I believe a high assist % point guard does the same, which most people draft. This gives a deadly 1-2 punch that jacks 3P FG% and FG% across the board.

These two factors generally push Peja to 66% TS. For his usage, turnover rate, and cost, it's a sick bargain.

There's no doubt that any of that is true. He's just a (or should be) a liability on defense. Because the sim is so offensively geared and high defensive players are so overpriced, you don't get punished for this major weakness.

He also doesn't get to the line as much as I like for one of my 22.1%+ usage players, but he does so more than Shuttlesworth, who doesn't even get to the line 400 times in either of the seasons that the cookie uses (top season and the record-breaking 3pm season).

Ash - I assume your 40 % oreb and 80 % dreb critera are for open leagues ?

Don't see how that could get done in a progressive or draft league without completely sacrificing AST and 3's.

yeah, this discussion is pretty much open league, though many of the concepts are universal.

Used to 30% oreb was fine. But then everybody started doubling up on moses/rodman. really need 90% or even 100% dreb to counter that.