One of the things that always worries me when they make changes is that those changes always have unintended consequences. It sounds really good, but what are the side effects going to be and could they be worse than the state farm teams? I wouldn't think so, but you have people changing code that they didn't write and don't really know what it's going to do.

Posted by slashtc on 7/2/2021 6:32:00 PM (view original):
One of the things that always worries me when they make changes is that those changes always have unintended consequences. It sounds really good, but what are the side effects going to be and could they be worse than the state farm teams? I wouldn't think so, but you have people changing code that they didn't write and don't really know what it's going to do.

Which is why it would be better to start from scratch and rewrite some of these games completely.

short of a total system overhaul what about just changing the salary valuation equation to make assists more expensive? amongst other things, our beloved sim is an exercise in market economics. the exploit reveals the fact that the valuation system currently in place in the WIS market undervalues assists relative to the level of impact they have on outcomes

make it more expensive to draft a Stockton and you won't be able to draft two of them (or their cognates) in an open cap league

I like your suggestion ashamael. How do we make it so?

If it's too much for the parent company of WIS to put a team of engineers and QA folks on sim basketball couldn't they just eliminate clones in open leagues similar to how they eliminated rookies?

Or create two separate open league concepts: one with no clones or rookies, and another with the current anything goes format with rookies brought back?

Eliminating clones would at least make the assist % teams more interesting. I can't tell you how eye-roll inducing it is seeing a team with a starting lineup with some combination of double Stocktons, double Lebrons, and double Magics.

Eliminating clones doesn't help anything and just hurts many other aspects of "What If?" There are tons of great theme leagues where neither of these things are issues; I suggest keeping an eye on the classified forum and joining some draft leagues. They (and progressives, imo) are the most interesting things this site has to offer.

As far as making my suggestion so, it's not something I assume they'll do right away even if they agree with every aspect of it. As mentioned before, the sim engine is a mess and it's much more likely that they will construct something new from the ground up. My suggestion is more of the thought process for how they need to go about that part of the code when they are rebuilding it. If they could just quickly change it, that'd be wonderful, but either way.

Posted by ashamael on 7/8/2021 3:59:00 PM (view original):
Eliminating clones doesn't help anything and just hurts many other aspects of "What If?" There are tons of great theme leagues where neither of these things are issues; I suggest keeping an eye on the classified forum and joining some draft leagues. They (and progressives, imo) are the most interesting things this site has to offer.

As far as making my suggestion so, it's not something I assume they'll do right away even if they agree with every aspect of it. As mentioned before, the sim engine is a mess and it's much more likely that they will construct something new from the ground up. My suggestion is more of the thought process for how they need to go about that part of the code when they are rebuilding it. If they could just quickly change it, that'd be wonderful, but either way.

There are some great theme leagues but they can take way too long to fill. I jumped in one today that looks close to starting up, so that's cool.

While I agree that no clones does hurt the "what if" aspect I definitely think at least having a no clones open league option would help. The double stockton, lebron, magic thing is lame and so played out. Makes the sim boring. At least get creative with the assist strategy if we've all got to use it to compete.

We're really talking about one owner here. One owner who plays open league State Farms EVERY TIME and nothing else. I see him and I either build a State Farm to compete or I just don't join. I can't be alone. If he stops this nonsense I'm sure the other handful of owners building State Farms just to combat him will follow suit. We all know who it is and frankly I'm shocked he hasn't picked up the hint that every owner is sick, tired, and unimpressed by his one trick pony schtick. Nice guy, but how he's gotten away with this for so long without becoming a pariah is beyond me.

Posted by snowflakes on 7/8/2021 9:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 7/8/2021 3:59:00 PM (view original):
Eliminating clones doesn't help anything and just hurts many other aspects of "What If?" There are tons of great theme leagues where neither of these things are issues; I suggest keeping an eye on the classified forum and joining some draft leagues. They (and progressives, imo) are the most interesting things this site has to offer.

As far as making my suggestion so, it's not something I assume they'll do right away even if they agree with every aspect of it. As mentioned before, the sim engine is a mess and it's much more likely that they will construct something new from the ground up. My suggestion is more of the thought process for how they need to go about that part of the code when they are rebuilding it. If they could just quickly change it, that'd be wonderful, but either way.

There are some great theme leagues but they can take way too long to fill. I jumped in one today that looks close to starting up, so that's cool.

While I agree that no clones does hurt the "what if" aspect I definitely think at least having a no clones open league option would help. The double stockton, lebron, magic thing is lame and so played out. Makes the sim boring. At least get creative with the assist strategy if we've all got to use it to compete.

"no clones open league" is not an open league but it is a totally valid theme league parameter

(you are harshing on my 'Bowful of Bols' team build idea)

Posted by snowflakes on 7/8/2021 9:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 7/8/2021 3:59:00 PM (view original):
Eliminating clones doesn't help anything and just hurts many other aspects of "What If?" There are tons of great theme leagues where neither of these things are issues; I suggest keeping an eye on the classified forum and joining some draft leagues. They (and progressives, imo) are the most interesting things this site has to offer.

As far as making my suggestion so, it's not something I assume they'll do right away even if they agree with every aspect of it. As mentioned before, the sim engine is a mess and it's much more likely that they will construct something new from the ground up. My suggestion is more of the thought process for how they need to go about that part of the code when they are rebuilding it. If they could just quickly change it, that'd be wonderful, but either way.

There are some great theme leagues but they can take way too long to fill. I jumped in one today that looks close to starting up, so that's cool.

While I agree that no clones does hurt the "what if" aspect I definitely think at least having a no clones open league option would help. The double stockton, lebron, magic thing is lame and so played out. Makes the sim boring. At least get creative with the assist strategy if we've all got to use it to compete.

1) The theme league classifieds are your friend; don't just try to blindly find (or start) theme leagues without them
2) splitting the OLs will make both take longer to fill
3) Trust me, you'd still be facing ridiculous state farm teams without a single clone. It's not any more fun just because there's a different set of letters for a particular set of statistics.
4) For every person that hates clones, there's at least one person who just absolutely loves them.
5) Names are irrelevant; it's all about what the individual seasons do.

Posted by Kona1 on 7/9/2021 2:15:00 AM (view original):
We're really talking about one owner here. One owner who plays open league State Farms EVERY TIME and nothing else. I see him and I either build a State Farm to compete or I just don't join. I can't be alone. If he stops this nonsense I'm sure the other handful of owners building State Farms just to combat him will follow suit. We all know who it is and frankly I'm shocked he hasn't picked up the hint that every owner is sick, tired, and unimpressed by his one trick pony schtick. Nice guy, but how he's gotten away with this for so long without becoming a pariah is beyond me.

eh, I am not exactly sure who you're talking about but think I have a pretty good idea. It's an easy way to get lots of Ws, jack up your record, and get some free teams, so I think anybody who loves spamming a lot of leagues will gravitate towards whatever is super strong.

Also, if it's who I think it is, he's played so many leagues with nothing close to optimal that WIS probably owes him a bunch of free teams anyway.

Thanks Ash you way smart.
Perhaps if the community is ready for a meta shift maybe a simple fix would be something similar to what SL Baseball did and have the purchase cost per player move in a +/- depending on player's usage within the sim. The Stocktons would quickly grow to 8,9,10 million restricting team building and might be easier for programming if they could basically copy code, but that is a language I don't speak and I don't know if that is viable. Secondly, put a premium value on Ast% higher than whatever it is currently at which would raise value to purchase these Stocktons. Just a couple options I thought of. I hate to lose another baby but I totally understand if the leagues are turning stale and into the same 5 players winning the trophy.

The legend appears!

That has been brought up before. I (and others) believe it will hurt way more things than it will help - particularly theme leagues. Some who play both sports have voiced really strong objections, and their experiences reflect the concern I have for the future.

We definitely need to kibosh it though so that you can return and come up with some other absurd mechanic!!

Posted by ashamael on 7/9/2021 4:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Kona1 on 7/9/2021 2:15:00 AM (view original):
We're really talking about one owner here. One owner who plays open league State Farms EVERY TIME and nothing else. I see him and I either build a State Farm to compete or I just don't join. I can't be alone. If he stops this nonsense I'm sure the other handful of owners building State Farms just to combat him will follow suit. We all know who it is and frankly I'm shocked he hasn't picked up the hint that every owner is sick, tired, and unimpressed by his one trick pony schtick. Nice guy, but how he's gotten away with this for so long without becoming a pariah is beyond me.

eh, I am not exactly sure who you're talking about but think I have a pretty good idea. It's an easy way to get lots of Ws, jack up your record, and get some free teams, so I think anybody who loves spamming a lot of leagues will gravitate towards whatever is super strong.

Also, if it's who I think it is, he's played so many leagues with nothing close to optimal that WIS probably owes him a bunch of free teams anyway.

It’s not who you think it is.

I still think capping the boost at 100% is the simplest solution and most likely to appeal to admin in the short term. Eventually they’ll be rewriting everything but that’s going to take a long time. It’s a simple fix in a step function, completely takes care of State Farm, and doesn’t really affect any other types of leagues. Simplest and possibly best short term solution.

Posted by ashamael on 7/9/2021 4:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Kona1 on 7/9/2021 2:15:00 AM (view original):
We're really talking about one owner here. One owner who plays open league State Farms EVERY TIME and nothing else. I see him and I either build a State Farm to compete or I just don't join. I can't be alone. If he stops this nonsense I'm sure the other handful of owners building State Farms just to combat him will follow suit. We all know who it is and frankly I'm shocked he hasn't picked up the hint that every owner is sick, tired, and unimpressed by his one trick pony schtick. Nice guy, but how he's gotten away with this for so long without becoming a pariah is beyond me.

eh, I am not exactly sure who you're talking about but think I have a pretty good idea. It's an easy way to get lots of Ws, jack up your record, and get some free teams, so I think anybody who loves spamming a lot of leagues will gravitate towards whatever is super strong.

Also, if it's who I think it is, he's played so many leagues with nothing close to optimal that WIS probably owes him a bunch of free teams anyway.

I agree at one point that was true. But for a good year and a half he spammed every single open league (up to 30 or 40 at a time) feasting on covid newbies, then when that well went dry it's been a parade of non stop State Farm teams. He's literally in every open league playing the same variety of State Farm. His record is WAY jacked up and the makeup freebees have long been used up, so at some point it's time to stop. State Farms have essentially become a cheat code, and as long as he keeps this up there's a whole slew of good owners who will stay away in what could have been a cool rebirth of a "sans rookie" open league.

I only bring it up because in the absence of anything getting done with reprogramming this thing (your ideas are great BTW) the best we can do is make State Farms so frowned upon that owners stop using them. And it starts with you know who. He agrees to stop, then good owners will start creeping back in, and we may start seeing some competition once again. One can dream ...