Not giving up the walk! Topic

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alebenta
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I think you may be confusing the certain results of computer simulation with the uncertainty of real life scenarios. I think all managers would agree that walks are bad. I'm sure they coach and instruct their pitchers to not walk batters. But, unlike a computer game, such instruction is hardly failsafe. The pitcher actually needs to throw the ball. When's the last time you threw a ball? Can be difficult at times to get it to go precisely where you want. Add to this the fact that there are 50,000 people watching you and that there is a batter at the plate who will likely crush it if you put it right down the middle so you try to aim for the edges or throw pitches that curve, over which you've even less control, and you get walks.

11/24/2009 10:21 AM
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mattedesa
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Good points by Trentonjoe. Fewer walks may be the fruit of a better pitcher, not the precipitating factor.

However, I noticed booger's initial point in a Jekyl/Hyde rookie pitcher the Texas Rangers had this season (Derek Holland, I think was his name). I went to a game where he pitched 7 strong innings, walking no one and giving up only one run against the Red Sox. Quite promising, no? Well, the next game he went out and walked 6 Athletics and got pulled from the game in the 3rd inning, behind by several runs.

The question is, did he walk fewer (and therefore pitch more effectively) due to a change of mindset (I'll attack the hitters today) or due to a better ability on that particular day to control the ball?
11/24/2009 2:00 PM
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Trentonjoe
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Or...



Boogerlips: I am going to say something everyone knows and find some silly stats to back up a point that is generally excepted so I look smart.
Trentonjoe: You're saying something everyone knows and is generally excepeted. Your just using silly stats to make yourself feel smart.
Boogerlips: No, I must be right.
11/24/2009 3:34 PM
Trentonjoe
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Oh, and I totally missed the Trent On Joe thing. Very clever.
11/24/2009 3:35 PM
dahsdebater
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So maybe TJ didn't actually prove that your point was wrong. However, I actually would say that some pitchers would be less effective if they threw less balls. This is particularly true of pitchers with very high velocity fastballs. The success of Nolan Ryan, early career Randy Johnson, J. R. Richard, etc. attests to this fact. If a pitcher throws hard enough that it really scares the hitter to think he's not entirely sure where it's going and doesn't have pinpoint control, throwing some inside instead of down the middle is usually going to keep the hitters off balance. You can walk 3 guys in an inning and still not give up any runs, more if you get a DP...
11/24/2009 3:41 PM
The Taint
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Quote: Originally Posted By boogerlips on 11/24/2009
I keep waiting for the day when major league pitching coaches realize that simply refusing to give up walks is what separates the men from the boys. Of course I'm still waiting for the day that Tony LaRussa stops batting his worst hitter in the 2 spot and costing us eight games a year, but I digress....

I did a Wis Search for all pitchers who had at least 125IP, and 1.5BB/9 or less. 326 seasons show up (minus clone seasons). Only 48 pitchers had an ERA higher than 4. Greg Maddux appears on this list 5 times (his last 5 seasons in fact). Bob Tewksbury, David Wells, Robin Roberts, and Lew Burdette appear 3 times. 17 of the 48 seasons are by the previous 4 pitchers. The highest ERA of the 48 seasons was a 5.31 by Tewk in a season he gave up 1.27BB/9. Most of the group is more towards the 4.00ERA end, with only 7 players having an ERA higher than 4.80.

A lot of people think Maddux had some mysterious genius. I think the majority of his "genius" was realizing what others refuse to. Walks are bad. Seems like 99% of pitchers think that they are giving in to a hitter if they don't nibble at the strikezone. Make 'em hit it!



It helped that he got an extra two inches off the plate in his heyday. His reputation earned him many incorrect calls.
11/24/2009 6:51 PM
winnetka1
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...and he earned his reputation.
11/24/2009 7:06 PM
The Taint
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Fo sho.
11/24/2009 7:15 PM
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