Posted by tecwrg on 10/16/2017 12:13:00 PM (view original):
Let me put it another way, that maybe you'll understand.

Let's say 100 black people a year get unjustly killed by white racist police officers in the USA. In a country of 320 million people, on a planet of over 6 billion people, what happens to 100 people "really doesn't matter".

You good with that? Because that's pretty much EXACTLY what you're saying about strikeouts with your "season as a whole" context.

BL?

Oooooh, I can play that game. Is 10 strikeouts better than 19 strikeouts over the course of a season?

Hint: The answer is yes. Therefore, Tony Gwynn struck out too much in 1994.

Posted by Jtpsops on 10/16/2017 1:02:00 PM (view original):
Given a previous season's stats, going into next season, which hitter would you rather have, bad_trump:

Player A: .300/.425/.600, 40 HR, 120 RBI, 250 Ks

Player B: .300/.425/.600, 40 HR, 120 RBI, 50 Ks

Which brings us back to this. If you had to pick one of those players to have on your team NEXT season, you'd say both players are equal - there's no difference.

You'd be wrong. Player B is the (much) better choice.

Posted by Jtpsops on 10/16/2017 4:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 10/16/2017 1:02:00 PM (view original):
Given a previous season's stats, going into next season, which hitter would you rather have, bad_trump:

Player A: .300/.425/.600, 40 HR, 120 RBI, 250 Ks

Player B: .300/.425/.600, 40 HR, 120 RBI, 50 Ks

Which brings us back to this. If you had to pick one of those players to have on your team NEXT season, you'd say both players are equal - there's no difference.

You'd be wrong. Player B is the (much) better choice.

If we're projecting someone's season going forward, a guy who has trouble making contact is going to be less reliable than a guy who doesn't, so obviously everyone would pick B. But that's not the argument we're having.

We're evaluating a past season. Not projecting stats going forward.

These round and rounds are so useless.

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 4:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 10/16/2017 4:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 10/16/2017 1:02:00 PM (view original):
Given a previous season's stats, going into next season, which hitter would you rather have, bad_trump:

Player A: .300/.425/.600, 40 HR, 120 RBI, 250 Ks

Player B: .300/.425/.600, 40 HR, 120 RBI, 50 Ks

Which brings us back to this. If you had to pick one of those players to have on your team NEXT season, you'd say both players are equal - there's no difference.

You'd be wrong. Player B is the (much) better choice.

If we're projecting someone's season going forward, a guy who has trouble making contact is going to be less reliable than a guy who doesn't, so obviously everyone would pick B. But that's not the argument we're having.

We're evaluating a past season. Not projecting stats going forward.

No, YOU are evaluating past seasons. Everyone else is talking about the value of a strikeout vs other kinds of outs.

You’re like a guy who shows up to a wine tasting with a beer mug asking when the kegs are getting tapped.

Everyone here is talking about plays and seasons that have already happened. No one is talking about trying to figure out who will be good going forward.

It's a completely different discussion.

Once again, you're totally clueless as to what everyone else is arguing.

"You guys have no clue how to make beer. This stuff tastes like wine."
"Uh, this is a wine tasting."
"No, it's a beer tasting. And you guys suck at making it."
"No, it's a wine tasting."
"You're such an idiot. Everyone else is here for a beer tasting, moron. You don't know what you're talking about."
"Nope, we're all here for a wine tasting."
"NO YOU'RE NOT!!!!!!!!!!"

Dude, you're just trying to change the argument.

Yes, contact rates are important if you are projecting forward. But this thread is about the Astros' 2017 season and how someone thought "productive outs" were the reason they scored more runs. We're talking about Judge's 2017 season too, but no one until you has said anything about projecting next season.

Posted by bad_luck on 10/14/2017 8:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 10/13/2017 9:28:00 PM (view original):
Hey, PSBL! You watching the Yankees/Astros game tonight?

Did you hear Smoltz talking about how the Astros offense is so much more improved this year because they cut down on strikeouts?

"Productive outs instead of swings and misses" were his exact words.

Will you be contacting him to tell him he's wrong?

Um yeah, the Astros OPS dominated the rest of the AL. How they made their outs doesn't matter.

See?

I'm not changing anything, dumbass. Try reading the title of the thread you're in. The concept of productive out has nothing to do with "talking about plays and seasons that have already happened." It's a discussion about outs that bring about a positive outcome for the team (which strikeouts rarely, if ever, do).

This just solidifies how utterly clueless you are.

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 11:58:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 10/16/2017 11:44:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 10:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 10/16/2017 9:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):
I mean, it’s like I said this within the posts you quoted:

“Obviously, there are situations where a ground out or fly out is better than a strikeout. And there are others where a ground out is worse than a strikeout.”

But still you say 'all outs are the same'. Pretty confusing at this point.

I don’t know what’s confusing about it.

The relative value of an out can vary up slightly or down a lot in a given situation but, when you’re talking about a full season from a hitter, it really doesn’t matter how he made his outs, again, assuming he reached base at a good rate.

The results of individual games, innings, or plate appearances are not determined by what happens during a "full season from a hitter". They are determined by what happens during the game, inning or plate appearances.

Stop trying to change the context to fit your retarded narrative.

Great, but when you (or anyone) says something like, Aaron Judge struck out too much this year, you aren't looking at an individual game or an individual situation, you're talking about his season as a whole. And, in that context, how he made his outs really doesn't matter.

See the past tense of "how he made his outs?"

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 2:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 10/16/2017 2:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 2:09:00 PM (view original):
LOL. You’re saying, “only look at the relative positive of certain outs in play. Ignore the giant negative of other outs in play. Tell me what’s better.”

Yeah, if you ignore the main reason that outs are generally a wash, it’s going to help your argument.

It’s just not very honest.

Again, deflecting.

You said - " The relative value of an out can vary up slightly or down a lot in a given situation but, when you’re talking about a full season from a hitter, it really doesn’t matter how he made his outs, again, assuming he reached base at a good rate."

So in this case, I'm asking you if in those 15 ABS which resulted in SFs over an entire season did matter rather than if they were Ks. You don't want to answer that. And I understand. Because it is a practical example of why you are wrong. The way Lindor made those outs DID matter.

Try and stay away from my 2006 St Louis Cardinals argument too.

I'm not avoiding answering it. The sac flies had a positive relative value. You're refusing to accept the fact that the gain in relative value from the sac flies was more than completely eliminated by the 18 double plays he grounded into.

More past tense.

Opening post:

"Productive outs instead of swings and misses"

That's what the ultimate point of this discussion is.

Once again, you're a painfully clueless and unaware moron.

Posted by Jtpsops on 10/16/2017 4:54:00 PM (view original):
Opening post:

"Productive outs instead of swings and misses"

That's what the ultimate point of this discussion is.

Once again, you're a painfully clueless and unaware moron.

Yeah productive vs strike outs. No one has said anything about projecting next season.