Posted by wylie715 on 6/4/2022 2:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 11:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 11:14:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/4/2022 12:22:00 AM (view original):
just like it is their freedom of speech to say what they think. They should not try to silence you and you should not try to silence them. You can and should voice your disagreement, but just because you disagree that does not mean they are wrong or bad people.

I may agree with you as to what will make this country great, but other people may have different ideas as to what will make this country great. They are entitled to their ideas just like you are. That does not make them not great Americans, and your (and I probably agree with most of them) and your ideas don't make you a great American.

You also keep talking about politicians. In my opinion, most politicians don't care what you or I think. Most politicians will say and do whatever they need to say and do to get elected and re-elected. If it happens to benefit the country, great, but if it doesn't, they don't care. I have always said show me an honest politician and I will show you a failed politician. They are one and the same. So, when I talk about good and bad people I am not talking about politicians. Yes, some of them may be better than most, but they all still do what is best for themselves in the long run if they want to have any power.

you keep saying things i’m not saying.
It is not for you to tell me that I cannot call certain people “bad” people.
You are the guy who has said that you could not hate Hitler because you don’t know him.

You should be eternally humiliated for such a comment and belief.

Find me one time that I ever said that people are not entitled to their opinions.
You must be smoking something to say that.
And when did I suggest that it matters to me what politicians think of me.

I have a passion. I’m not some spineless jellyfish who has to play footsty because no one should criticize anyone which you seem to advocate because you have to know someone first.

If people who know that democracy is at real risk don’t have true passion they are not part of the army trying to keep this country from becoming a banana republic.

When it comes to politicians I know them more then well enough by how they deal with legislation and the promises they make and the stands they take.
I don’t care about what they secretly think.
I know them by what they do or refuse to do.

I don't hate Hitler. I hate what he did. When did I suggest that it matters to you what politicians think of you? Politicians don't think about you. You can call whomever you want a bad person. It just seems you call anyone who disagrees with you a bad person. That is not always the case. I don't know if you ever said people aren't entitled to their opinions and I don't care enough to look. What you have implied is that anyone who's opinion does not match yours is an idiot and wrong.
So, even though you claim you don't call people names, you basically just called me a spineless jellyfish (along with many other names you have called me in the past). You can call me whatever you want. I really don't care what anyone here thinks of me, since they don't know me. I think I care even less what you think of me. Just like strikeout, I think I will block you now. It's not worth my time to read what you write or comment on it, so I won't.

Block me - you are a bloody bore who isn’t even able to hate Hitler.
You want to block me because I refuse to accept what you have to say. Go for it.

But do remember that you have more people blocking you then anyone else in the WIS.

Also, To say you can’t hate the person of Hitler is probably the screwiest and scariest statements ever made in the WIS forums.
Can you imagine holocaust survivors saying I hate the holocaust but I don’t hate Hitler.
Or citizens in the post civil war north and emancipated slaves saying I hate that Lincoln was assassinated but I don’t hate Booth.
or the parents of the kids just murdered in Texas saying I don’t hate the murderer, I just hate that they are dead.

How ludicrous can a person be.

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 1:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/4/2022 1:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 6/4/2022 7:37:00 AM (view original):
I haven’t really followed it at all, but the Libertarian Party is ****. The point of parties is to fundraise and win elections. They ain’t very good at either. My ideologies lean libertarian (not crazy Ayn Rand libertarian, but the “we have a social responsibility to help our neighbor without government having to do it libertarian), but I mainly consider myself politically homeless.

I want government to have as little power as possible. There’s a Republican running for something or another here in SC that has “I know how to get things done” as his slogan on his yard signs. I wouldn’t, in a million years, vote for that guy. I don’t want government to get things done. When they do, they screw things up.

This is the dividing line between the parties. Republicans want the status quo, which makes sense. That’s kind of the definition of conservatism. Democrats understand that government sucks, but that it holds ton of power so they think that if they can take control of those levers of power they can reform it into something good. And true libertarians want to strip government of power except for what is absolutely necessary.

Honestly, the libertarian party is a bit of a clownshow. Very fun to laugh at. And sometimes the state parties say something insane on social media, and that gets passed around.

I have a lot of respect for principled libertarians and anarchists. Most self-proclaimed libertarians are just conservatives who say they hate the government but support all the same **** as the Republican party (with the exception of being against the war on drugs).. That's not libertarianism. Jo Jorgensen seemed actually principled.

Fun fact: libertarianism was actually invented as a form of anti-state communist politics. It only got co-opted by the right in the 20th century.

Actually if you look at her policies she is an awful like Rand Paul and that is plenty awful.
They may both be principled with absolutely awful principles.

I'll take Rand Paul over most of the modern Republican party, for sure. And Jo is better than Rand.

Posted by strikeout26 on 6/4/2022 1:36:00 PM (view original):
Keyword is “anti-State”. If true Marxism took place, it wouldn’t really bother me because it would be a natural progression. It never will because it defies human nature, but if it did it would be okay. Marxism requires no government. What we saw in the 20th century was not Marxism in the slightest and it led to hundreds of millions of deaths.

I always think it’s funny when people say Antifa are anarchists. They are the total opposite of anarchists. They are tyrants. “Do what we say or we’ll give you the Andy Ngo treatment.”

Yeah, the libertarian party is for sure a clown show. That’s an axiom if I’ve ever heard one. But let’s be real. All of the political parties are clown shows. Have you heard our current Vice President and president give a speech? Did you ever hear a speech from our previous president? Despite what people think of him our last VP was a pretty classy guy, but for the most part they’re all clowns.

I’m curious. Do you consider me to be a principled libertarian or a closeted conservative? I’m curious how I come across to people. It’s sometimes hard to gauge yourself. I do know the right considers me a liberal and a lot on the left consider me right of Atilla the Hun. I guess I can take that as I’m pretty much in the center. I don’t know. I ask you because I know you’ll shoot me straight.

What we saw in the 20th century was not Marxism in the slightest and it led to hundreds of millions of deaths.

I mean yeah, obviously, the Soviet Union was awful and a rejection of what Marx wrote.

I'm not sure about your ideology. I haven't talked to you enough to gauge out how libertarian vs conservative principles clash. A couple of issues where conservatism/Trumpsism and libertarianism usually might clash would be criminal justice, drugs, trade, immigration, abortion, trans issues (and a lot of other social issues that conservatives might want to regulate), etc.

The Ben Shapiros who claim to be libertarian but fall in line with government regulation when it's on the conservative side are very strange to me.

You're obviously not some crazy Trumper or whatever, and we certainly disagree on a lot, but we generally agree on problems, and I don't think you're bigoted, hateful, or unreasonable.

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 2:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/4/2022 2:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 11:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 11:14:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/4/2022 12:22:00 AM (view original):
just like it is their freedom of speech to say what they think. They should not try to silence you and you should not try to silence them. You can and should voice your disagreement, but just because you disagree that does not mean they are wrong or bad people.

I may agree with you as to what will make this country great, but other people may have different ideas as to what will make this country great. They are entitled to their ideas just like you are. That does not make them not great Americans, and your (and I probably agree with most of them) and your ideas don't make you a great American.

You also keep talking about politicians. In my opinion, most politicians don't care what you or I think. Most politicians will say and do whatever they need to say and do to get elected and re-elected. If it happens to benefit the country, great, but if it doesn't, they don't care. I have always said show me an honest politician and I will show you a failed politician. They are one and the same. So, when I talk about good and bad people I am not talking about politicians. Yes, some of them may be better than most, but they all still do what is best for themselves in the long run if they want to have any power.

you keep saying things i’m not saying.
It is not for you to tell me that I cannot call certain people “bad” people.
You are the guy who has said that you could not hate Hitler because you don’t know him.

You should be eternally humiliated for such a comment and belief.

Find me one time that I ever said that people are not entitled to their opinions.
You must be smoking something to say that.
And when did I suggest that it matters to me what politicians think of me.

I have a passion. I’m not some spineless jellyfish who has to play footsty because no one should criticize anyone which you seem to advocate because you have to know someone first.

If people who know that democracy is at real risk don’t have true passion they are not part of the army trying to keep this country from becoming a banana republic.

When it comes to politicians I know them more then well enough by how they deal with legislation and the promises they make and the stands they take.
I don’t care about what they secretly think.
I know them by what they do or refuse to do.

I don't hate Hitler. I hate what he did. When did I suggest that it matters to you what politicians think of you? Politicians don't think about you. You can call whomever you want a bad person. It just seems you call anyone who disagrees with you a bad person. That is not always the case. I don't know if you ever said people aren't entitled to their opinions and I don't care enough to look. What you have implied is that anyone who's opinion does not match yours is an idiot and wrong.
So, even though you claim you don't call people names, you basically just called me a spineless jellyfish (along with many other names you have called me in the past). You can call me whatever you want. I really don't care what anyone here thinks of me, since they don't know me. I think I care even less what you think of me. Just like strikeout, I think I will block you now. It's not worth my time to read what you write or comment on it, so I won't.

Block me - you are a bloody bore who isn’t even able to hate Hitler.
You want to block me because I refuse to accept what you have to say. Go for it.

But do remember that you have more people blocking you then anyone else in the WIS.

"Beloved, a new commandment give I unto you; that ye love one another, as I have loved you" - From the Lord Jesus Christ, who loved us so much he died for us

So how are we doing with that???

Posted by tangplay on 6/4/2022 4:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 6/4/2022 1:36:00 PM (view original):
Keyword is “anti-State”. If true Marxism took place, it wouldn’t really bother me because it would be a natural progression. It never will because it defies human nature, but if it did it would be okay. Marxism requires no government. What we saw in the 20th century was not Marxism in the slightest and it led to hundreds of millions of deaths.

I always think it’s funny when people say Antifa are anarchists. They are the total opposite of anarchists. They are tyrants. “Do what we say or we’ll give you the Andy Ngo treatment.”

Yeah, the libertarian party is for sure a clown show. That’s an axiom if I’ve ever heard one. But let’s be real. All of the political parties are clown shows. Have you heard our current Vice President and president give a speech? Did you ever hear a speech from our previous president? Despite what people think of him our last VP was a pretty classy guy, but for the most part they’re all clowns.

I’m curious. Do you consider me to be a principled libertarian or a closeted conservative? I’m curious how I come across to people. It’s sometimes hard to gauge yourself. I do know the right considers me a liberal and a lot on the left consider me right of Atilla the Hun. I guess I can take that as I’m pretty much in the center. I don’t know. I ask you because I know you’ll shoot me straight.

What we saw in the 20th century was not Marxism in the slightest and it led to hundreds of millions of deaths.

I mean yeah, obviously, the Soviet Union was awful and a rejection of what Marx wrote.

I'm not sure about your ideology. I haven't talked to you enough to gauge out how libertarian vs conservative principles clash. A couple of issues where conservatism/Trumpsism and libertarianism usually might clash would be criminal justice, drugs, trade, immigration, abortion, trans issues (and a lot of other social issues that conservatives might want to regulate), etc.

The Ben Shapiros who claim to be libertarian but fall in line with government regulation when it's on the conservative side are very strange to me.

You're obviously not some crazy Trumper or whatever, and we certainly disagree on a lot, but we generally agree on problems, and I don't think you're bigoted, hateful, or unreasonable.

You have to separate out my political from my social views. Here’s a super brief overview.

Criminal justice (laws in general): I believe that the government’s role is to protect rights. As I’ve said, the government’s job is to protect people from other people. We should have laws that protect life and private property. No stealin’ and no killin’! There should be no laws that protect people from themselves. I think you are really stupid if you do drugs, but I don’t think you should go to jail for it. I think you’re really stupid if you don’t wear a seatbelt, but I don’t think you should receive a ticket for it.

Drugs: see above. They should be legal. If you want to kill your braincells, that’s on you.

Trade: I’m very much for global trade and free markets. I’m a firm believer that free markets work themselves out. Are they perfect? Not even close. But markets seem to run smoother the fewer regulations that you have.

Immigration: I’m an open borders guy (I do think we should monitor who is coming in and vet to the best of our ability). The caveat; immigrants should not receive government assistance. Granted, I think government welfare programs should be used in very rare circumstances anyway. The first line of defense to care for the poor should be religious and social communities. Those communities have failed their obligations, so the default has become government. This has given government more and more power and made more people dependent on it. Things never go well when any government has too much power. Government’s are inherently tyrannical.

Abortion: I might be the most pro-life person that you will ever meet. Being pro-life is the essence of true libertarianism. It is to deny science to say that the baby growing in the mothers womb is not a human being. By aborting that baby, you are denying it the right to life (the ultimate right). Without life, all of the other rights are irrelevant. The right to an abortion is not a real thing. There is no right to kill an innocent human being.

Trans issues: Men cannot be women and women cannot be men. I’m not going to live in fairy land world about that. We have feminine men and masculine women. That’s fine. That’s who you are, but we are born what we are born. That said, I really don’t care how you want to identify.

Posted by tangplay on 6/4/2022 4:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 1:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/4/2022 1:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 6/4/2022 7:37:00 AM (view original):
I haven’t really followed it at all, but the Libertarian Party is ****. The point of parties is to fundraise and win elections. They ain’t very good at either. My ideologies lean libertarian (not crazy Ayn Rand libertarian, but the “we have a social responsibility to help our neighbor without government having to do it libertarian), but I mainly consider myself politically homeless.

I want government to have as little power as possible. There’s a Republican running for something or another here in SC that has “I know how to get things done” as his slogan on his yard signs. I wouldn’t, in a million years, vote for that guy. I don’t want government to get things done. When they do, they screw things up.

This is the dividing line between the parties. Republicans want the status quo, which makes sense. That’s kind of the definition of conservatism. Democrats understand that government sucks, but that it holds ton of power so they think that if they can take control of those levers of power they can reform it into something good. And true libertarians want to strip government of power except for what is absolutely necessary.

Honestly, the libertarian party is a bit of a clownshow. Very fun to laugh at. And sometimes the state parties say something insane on social media, and that gets passed around.

I have a lot of respect for principled libertarians and anarchists. Most self-proclaimed libertarians are just conservatives who say they hate the government but support all the same **** as the Republican party (with the exception of being against the war on drugs).. That's not libertarianism. Jo Jorgensen seemed actually principled.

Fun fact: libertarianism was actually invented as a form of anti-state communist politics. It only got co-opted by the right in the 20th century.

Actually if you look at her policies she is an awful like Rand Paul and that is plenty awful.
They may both be principled with absolutely awful principles.

I'll take Rand Paul over most of the modern Republican party, for sure. And Jo is better than Rand.

that’s like saying a half a brain is better then no brain at all. I’m not sure what there is about Rand Paul that makes him not a member of the modern or current Republican party. I think that Dr. Fauci would probably agree with that.

Posted by lostnfound74 on 6/4/2022 4:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 2:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/4/2022 2:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 11:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 11:14:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/4/2022 12:22:00 AM (view original):
just like it is their freedom of speech to say what they think. They should not try to silence you and you should not try to silence them. You can and should voice your disagreement, but just because you disagree that does not mean they are wrong or bad people.

I may agree with you as to what will make this country great, but other people may have different ideas as to what will make this country great. They are entitled to their ideas just like you are. That does not make them not great Americans, and your (and I probably agree with most of them) and your ideas don't make you a great American.

You also keep talking about politicians. In my opinion, most politicians don't care what you or I think. Most politicians will say and do whatever they need to say and do to get elected and re-elected. If it happens to benefit the country, great, but if it doesn't, they don't care. I have always said show me an honest politician and I will show you a failed politician. They are one and the same. So, when I talk about good and bad people I am not talking about politicians. Yes, some of them may be better than most, but they all still do what is best for themselves in the long run if they want to have any power.

you keep saying things i’m not saying.
It is not for you to tell me that I cannot call certain people “bad” people.
You are the guy who has said that you could not hate Hitler because you don’t know him.

You should be eternally humiliated for such a comment and belief.

Find me one time that I ever said that people are not entitled to their opinions.
You must be smoking something to say that.
And when did I suggest that it matters to me what politicians think of me.

I have a passion. I’m not some spineless jellyfish who has to play footsty because no one should criticize anyone which you seem to advocate because you have to know someone first.

If people who know that democracy is at real risk don’t have true passion they are not part of the army trying to keep this country from becoming a banana republic.

When it comes to politicians I know them more then well enough by how they deal with legislation and the promises they make and the stands they take.
I don’t care about what they secretly think.
I know them by what they do or refuse to do.

I don't hate Hitler. I hate what he did. When did I suggest that it matters to you what politicians think of you? Politicians don't think about you. You can call whomever you want a bad person. It just seems you call anyone who disagrees with you a bad person. That is not always the case. I don't know if you ever said people aren't entitled to their opinions and I don't care enough to look. What you have implied is that anyone who's opinion does not match yours is an idiot and wrong.
So, even though you claim you don't call people names, you basically just called me a spineless jellyfish (along with many other names you have called me in the past). You can call me whatever you want. I really don't care what anyone here thinks of me, since they don't know me. I think I care even less what you think of me. Just like strikeout, I think I will block you now. It's not worth my time to read what you write or comment on it, so I won't.

Block me - you are a bloody bore who isn’t even able to hate Hitler.
You want to block me because I refuse to accept what you have to say. Go for it.

But do remember that you have more people blocking you then anyone else in the WIS.

"Beloved, a new commandment give I unto you; that ye love one another, as I have loved you" - From the Lord Jesus Christ, who loved us so much he died for us

So how are we doing with that???

Don’t believe a god damned thing from anyone who says you will go to hell if you don’t believe him or in him.
How does that grab you, holy roller judas priest.

Posted by strikeout26 on 6/4/2022 6:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/4/2022 4:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 6/4/2022 1:36:00 PM (view original):
Keyword is “anti-State”. If true Marxism took place, it wouldn’t really bother me because it would be a natural progression. It never will because it defies human nature, but if it did it would be okay. Marxism requires no government. What we saw in the 20th century was not Marxism in the slightest and it led to hundreds of millions of deaths.

I always think it’s funny when people say Antifa are anarchists. They are the total opposite of anarchists. They are tyrants. “Do what we say or we’ll give you the Andy Ngo treatment.”

Yeah, the libertarian party is for sure a clown show. That’s an axiom if I’ve ever heard one. But let’s be real. All of the political parties are clown shows. Have you heard our current Vice President and president give a speech? Did you ever hear a speech from our previous president? Despite what people think of him our last VP was a pretty classy guy, but for the most part they’re all clowns.

I’m curious. Do you consider me to be a principled libertarian or a closeted conservative? I’m curious how I come across to people. It’s sometimes hard to gauge yourself. I do know the right considers me a liberal and a lot on the left consider me right of Atilla the Hun. I guess I can take that as I’m pretty much in the center. I don’t know. I ask you because I know you’ll shoot me straight.

What we saw in the 20th century was not Marxism in the slightest and it led to hundreds of millions of deaths.

I mean yeah, obviously, the Soviet Union was awful and a rejection of what Marx wrote.

I'm not sure about your ideology. I haven't talked to you enough to gauge out how libertarian vs conservative principles clash. A couple of issues where conservatism/Trumpsism and libertarianism usually might clash would be criminal justice, drugs, trade, immigration, abortion, trans issues (and a lot of other social issues that conservatives might want to regulate), etc.

The Ben Shapiros who claim to be libertarian but fall in line with government regulation when it's on the conservative side are very strange to me.

You're obviously not some crazy Trumper or whatever, and we certainly disagree on a lot, but we generally agree on problems, and I don't think you're bigoted, hateful, or unreasonable.

You have to separate out my political from my social views. Here’s a super brief overview.

Criminal justice (laws in general): I believe that the government’s role is to protect rights. As I’ve said, the government’s job is to protect people from other people. We should have laws that protect life and private property. No stealin’ and no killin’! There should be no laws that protect people from themselves. I think you are really stupid if you do drugs, but I don’t think you should go to jail for it. I think you’re really stupid if you don’t wear a seatbelt, but I don’t think you should receive a ticket for it.

Drugs: see above. They should be legal. If you want to kill your braincells, that’s on you.

Trade: I’m very much for global trade and free markets. I’m a firm believer that free markets work themselves out. Are they perfect? Not even close. But markets seem to run smoother the fewer regulations that you have.

Immigration: I’m an open borders guy (I do think we should monitor who is coming in and vet to the best of our ability). The caveat; immigrants should not receive government assistance. Granted, I think government welfare programs should be used in very rare circumstances anyway. The first line of defense to care for the poor should be religious and social communities. Those communities have failed their obligations, so the default has become government. This has given government more and more power and made more people dependent on it. Things never go well when any government has too much power. Government’s are inherently tyrannical.

Abortion: I might be the most pro-life person that you will ever meet. Being pro-life is the essence of true libertarianism. It is to deny science to say that the baby growing in the mothers womb is not a human being. By aborting that baby, you are denying it the right to life (the ultimate right). Without life, all of the other rights are irrelevant. The right to an abortion is not a real thing. There is no right to kill an innocent human being.

Trans issues: Men cannot be women and women cannot be men. I’m not going to live in fairy land world about that. We have feminine men and masculine women. That’s fine. That’s who you are, but we are born what we are born. That said, I really don’t care how you want to identify.

are you saying the trans process should be illegal?
What you call a human being is an opinion.
It isn’t even in the bible although the old testament did not approve of spilling seed.
On public welfare you favor dog eat dog and survival of the fittest.
Can the government be responsible to protecting children who cannot be protected from the circumstances or ineptitude of their parents.
How are children protected when everyone in the home - whatever or wherever that might be because of lack of resources is stricken with hunger and the ghetto they live in has ever expanding borders.

Libertarianism has always had a real mean streak imo.
It is a fantasy paradigm for people who want to protect a fetus until it gets born and drive the unwanted parents into living in the belly of the impoverished beast.
It is every bit as much of a fantasy as communism in a highly populated country.
Protecting people from people with laze fare gun policies and forced births and no welfare system for those in need is a perfect prescription for more crime and more punishment and more have nots and a worse caste system.
It also leads to dissolution of unions and less integral regulation.
It sounds nice until you actually read what the policies are.
Take away the safety nets and take away social security and have private retirement plans.
Can you imagine what could have happened to seniors in 2008 with their plans going belly up and no guaranteed ss income.
It would be another dust bowl era.

I like a reality based government where the reigns of democracy are being safeguarded better and better as we realize that you need certain government protections because people cannot be trusted as we saw with Trump and his people after Trump lost.

for the record I think you have a blind eye on certain race issues and facts but I do agree with Tangplay that you are no racist but you at times come at the issues from the wrong perspective as you do with sexual orientation and gender reality. I’m calling it gender reality instead of gender identity because i completely believe it to be every bit as real and natural as being gay.

If you believe in God then gay and trans people are manufactured by God. Don’t attack them.
Sue God instead.

That’s a civil enough response. I’ll take the bait and respond although I do feel like you don’t thoroughly read through my responses and I end up having to repeat myself.

Remember my disclaimer at the top of my last post. You have to separate my social views from my political views. I do not think the trans process should be illegal. I do not think that it’s wise to mutilate your body, but it’s your choice. People mutilate their bodies all the time. I have chewing tobacco in my mouth right now. I’m mutilating my body by doing it. I’m stupid for doing it (hopefully I can quit soon), but it should not be illegal. It should be my choice.

What I call a human being is not an opinion. It’s a scientific fact. There is literally not one scientific argument that you could make that it’s not a human. I could make many that prove it’s a human.

I never have and never will invoke the Bible when making a pro-life argument. For one thing, there is a strong chance that the person I am debating with is not a Christian and I have many questions about the Bible on my own.

I don’t think it’s a “dog eat dog” world when it comes to social welfare. We just disagree on whose shoulders the burden lies. You believe it’s the responsibility of the federal government. That’s a reasonable proposition as the US federal government holds tremendous power. I think that the responsibility lies with the social and religious communities and that the federal government should be stripped of the majority of their power. About the only power that they should hold is to protect us from foreign invaders. There’s a few exceptions, obviously.

Yes, I think government has a responsibility to protect children from inept parents; although that responsibility is typically given to local governments.

As far as families being stricken with hunger, no one wants that. But once again, the federal government should be the last line of defense in that scenario. They have become the default. We also know that pumping tax money at poverty doesn’t alleviate the problem. We have spent over $20T on the war on poverty and moved the needle very little.

Libertarianism is a wide spectrum. You have left leaning hippy libertarians sitting in a field eating his or her watermelon and your right leaning libertarian selling the hippy their fertilizer for the watermelon. Silly example. I know. But it works. The libertarianism that you described is the Ayn Rand brand. She was a nut. She didn’t believe in charities. It truly was every man for himself in her world. That’s not where I fall in the spectrum. The one constant with all libertarians is minimal government interference.

I don’t think I have a blind eye on race issues or facts at all. A lot of times with race issues, reality doesn’t match perception. With that said, perception matters a lot. People of color should feel confident that they are going to get a fair shake. I have a black son that is a cop in Atlanta. We have hours long talks all the time about why black people distrust police and his experiences as both a black male and a cop. His wife is mixed, but grew up with her white family. She talks a lot as well about how much she has learned from him.

As far as the trans issue, it’s going to take a lot to change my mind. We don’t treat any other biological, immutable trait the same way. We have examples of people identifying as a different race and society was not kind to those people. We have examples of people identifying as different species and society treats those people as kooks. I’m not sure why we treat gender like it is arbitrary and can be changed on a whim. Gender dysphoria is real and should not be taken lightly, but I don’t think it’s healthy for anyone to pretend that someone is something they are not.

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 2:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/4/2022 2:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 11:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 11:14:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/4/2022 12:22:00 AM (view original):
just like it is their freedom of speech to say what they think. They should not try to silence you and you should not try to silence them. You can and should voice your disagreement, but just because you disagree that does not mean they are wrong or bad people.

I may agree with you as to what will make this country great, but other people may have different ideas as to what will make this country great. They are entitled to their ideas just like you are. That does not make them not great Americans, and your (and I probably agree with most of them) and your ideas don't make you a great American.

You also keep talking about politicians. In my opinion, most politicians don't care what you or I think. Most politicians will say and do whatever they need to say and do to get elected and re-elected. If it happens to benefit the country, great, but if it doesn't, they don't care. I have always said show me an honest politician and I will show you a failed politician. They are one and the same. So, when I talk about good and bad people I am not talking about politicians. Yes, some of them may be better than most, but they all still do what is best for themselves in the long run if they want to have any power.

you keep saying things i’m not saying.
It is not for you to tell me that I cannot call certain people “bad” people.
You are the guy who has said that you could not hate Hitler because you don’t know him.

You should be eternally humiliated for such a comment and belief.

Find me one time that I ever said that people are not entitled to their opinions.
You must be smoking something to say that.
And when did I suggest that it matters to me what politicians think of me.

I have a passion. I’m not some spineless jellyfish who has to play footsty because no one should criticize anyone which you seem to advocate because you have to know someone first.

If people who know that democracy is at real risk don’t have true passion they are not part of the army trying to keep this country from becoming a banana republic.

When it comes to politicians I know them more then well enough by how they deal with legislation and the promises they make and the stands they take.
I don’t care about what they secretly think.
I know them by what they do or refuse to do.

I don't hate Hitler. I hate what he did. When did I suggest that it matters to you what politicians think of you? Politicians don't think about you. You can call whomever you want a bad person. It just seems you call anyone who disagrees with you a bad person. That is not always the case. I don't know if you ever said people aren't entitled to their opinions and I don't care enough to look. What you have implied is that anyone who's opinion does not match yours is an idiot and wrong.
So, even though you claim you don't call people names, you basically just called me a spineless jellyfish (along with many other names you have called me in the past). You can call me whatever you want. I really don't care what anyone here thinks of me, since they don't know me. I think I care even less what you think of me. Just like strikeout, I think I will block you now. It's not worth my time to read what you write or comment on it, so I won't.

Block me - you are a bloody bore who isn’t even able to hate Hitler.
You want to block me because I refuse to accept what you have to say. Go for it.

But do remember that you have more people blocking you then anyone else in the WIS.

last reply but you should check your stats..I know of at least 7 users who are blocked more than me. Plus the fact that so few people have blocked you shows that most of the people around here don't know what the hell they are doing.
And so nice to see you not name calling again. I want to block you because you think you are much smarter than you actually are and your posts are condescending to anyone you feel is not as smart as you, which is apparently everyone.
I also like how you said you were the only poster who reached out to all3 and bronxcheer when they were dying. How would you know who reached out to them? You wouldn't, but you just want to show what a decent human being you are compared to everyone else. I remember when you gave me **** because you felt I was not mourning my older sister correctly when she passed away. Like you get to decide what is the correct way to mourn. Go **** yourself.

Posted by strikeout26 on 6/4/2022 8:02:00 PM (view original):
That’s a civil enough response. I’ll take the bait and respond although I do feel like you don’t thoroughly read through my responses and I end up having to repeat myself.

Remember my disclaimer at the top of my last post. You have to separate my social views from my political views. I do not think the trans process should be illegal. I do not think that it’s wise to mutilate your body, but it’s your choice. People mutilate their bodies all the time. I have chewing tobacco in my mouth right now. I’m mutilating my body by doing it. I’m stupid for doing it (hopefully I can quit soon), but it should not be illegal. It should be my choice.

What I call a human being is not an opinion. It’s a scientific fact. There is literally not one scientific argument that you could make that it’s not a human. I could make many that prove it’s a human.

I never have and never will invoke the Bible when making a pro-life argument. For one thing, there is a strong chance that the person I am debating with is not a Christian and I have many questions about the Bible on my own.

I don’t think it’s a “dog eat dog” world when it comes to social welfare. We just disagree on whose shoulders the burden lies. You believe it’s the responsibility of the federal government. That’s a reasonable proposition as the US federal government holds tremendous power. I think that the responsibility lies with the social and religious communities and that the federal government should be stripped of the majority of their power. About the only power that they should hold is to protect us from foreign invaders. There’s a few exceptions, obviously.

Yes, I think government has a responsibility to protect children from inept parents; although that responsibility is typically given to local governments.

As far as families being stricken with hunger, no one wants that. But once again, the federal government should be the last line of defense in that scenario. They have become the default. We also know that pumping tax money at poverty doesn’t alleviate the problem. We have spent over $20T on the war on poverty and moved the needle very little.

Libertarianism is a wide spectrum. You have left leaning hippy libertarians sitting in a field eating his or her watermelon and your right leaning libertarian selling the hippy their fertilizer for the watermelon. Silly example. I know. But it works. The libertarianism that you described is the Ayn Rand brand. She was a nut. She didn’t believe in charities. It truly was every man for himself in her world. That’s not where I fall in the spectrum. The one constant with all libertarians is minimal government interference.

I don’t think I have a blind eye on race issues or facts at all. A lot of times with race issues, reality doesn’t match perception. With that said, perception matters a lot. People of color should feel confident that they are going to get a fair shake. I have a black son that is a cop in Atlanta. We have hours long talks all the time about why black people distrust police and his experiences as both a black male and a cop. His wife is mixed, but grew up with her white family. She talks a lot as well about how much she has learned from him.

As far as the trans issue, it’s going to take a lot to change my mind. We don’t treat any other biological, immutable trait the same way. We have examples of people identifying as a different race and society was not kind to those people. We have examples of people identifying as different species and society treats those people as kooks. I’m not sure why we treat gender like it is arbitrary and can be changed on a whim. Gender dysphoria is real and should not be taken lightly, but I don’t think it’s healthy for anyone to pretend that someone is something they are not.

an embryo being an embryo is a scientific fact.
a fetus being a fetus is a scientific fact.
an embryo being an actual human being is not a scientific fact.
A fetus at all stages prior to viability is not a scientific fact…..nor do I have any problem with people who do call it a human being from conception.

To a lot of pro choice people it is every bit as hazy or open to introspective interpretation as is pondering over the existence of God.

On trans right to self determination - it is better to become your authentic self then to mutilate your soul.

To be technically correct I agree that there are 2 genders because that is based on the body.
If someone is trans but does not go through an operation you can say they are a trans male or female
with a gender identification and once they actually become the gender through drugs and operation they are the gender they became and i don’t even think they should be called trans anymore.

Too many people are unable to imagine the genuine existence of a person with a mistake of body to soul.
It does exist and if it is just a mental illness or “mutilation” the people would be abnormal in many ways that point to mental illness.

As a libertarian one should have more respect and acceptance of an inner world other people have that you can’t imagine or relate to or understand.

A lot of trans people lead very successful and well adjusted lives ( like gay people ) before they come out and what they do is not on a whim but they are compelled by a deep hunger to be honest with the world and themselves.

For someone to say that gender dysphoria is real it seems compassionately ignorant to say a trans person is trying to be someone they are not.
That is your opinion and your interpretation of something you don’t have experience of and you should not be judging gender identity as you do.

Posted by wylie715 on 6/4/2022 8:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 2:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/4/2022 2:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 11:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 11:14:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/4/2022 12:22:00 AM (view original):
just like it is their freedom of speech to say what they think. They should not try to silence you and you should not try to silence them. You can and should voice your disagreement, but just because you disagree that does not mean they are wrong or bad people.

I may agree with you as to what will make this country great, but other people may have different ideas as to what will make this country great. They are entitled to their ideas just like you are. That does not make them not great Americans, and your (and I probably agree with most of them) and your ideas don't make you a great American.

You also keep talking about politicians. In my opinion, most politicians don't care what you or I think. Most politicians will say and do whatever they need to say and do to get elected and re-elected. If it happens to benefit the country, great, but if it doesn't, they don't care. I have always said show me an honest politician and I will show you a failed politician. They are one and the same. So, when I talk about good and bad people I am not talking about politicians. Yes, some of them may be better than most, but they all still do what is best for themselves in the long run if they want to have any power.

you keep saying things i’m not saying.
It is not for you to tell me that I cannot call certain people “bad” people.
You are the guy who has said that you could not hate Hitler because you don’t know him.

You should be eternally humiliated for such a comment and belief.

Find me one time that I ever said that people are not entitled to their opinions.
You must be smoking something to say that.
And when did I suggest that it matters to me what politicians think of me.

I have a passion. I’m not some spineless jellyfish who has to play footsty because no one should criticize anyone which you seem to advocate because you have to know someone first.

If people who know that democracy is at real risk don’t have true passion they are not part of the army trying to keep this country from becoming a banana republic.

When it comes to politicians I know them more then well enough by how they deal with legislation and the promises they make and the stands they take.
I don’t care about what they secretly think.
I know them by what they do or refuse to do.

I don't hate Hitler. I hate what he did. When did I suggest that it matters to you what politicians think of you? Politicians don't think about you. You can call whomever you want a bad person. It just seems you call anyone who disagrees with you a bad person. That is not always the case. I don't know if you ever said people aren't entitled to their opinions and I don't care enough to look. What you have implied is that anyone who's opinion does not match yours is an idiot and wrong.
So, even though you claim you don't call people names, you basically just called me a spineless jellyfish (along with many other names you have called me in the past). You can call me whatever you want. I really don't care what anyone here thinks of me, since they don't know me. I think I care even less what you think of me. Just like strikeout, I think I will block you now. It's not worth my time to read what you write or comment on it, so I won't.

Block me - you are a bloody bore who isn’t even able to hate Hitler.
You want to block me because I refuse to accept what you have to say. Go for it.

But do remember that you have more people blocking you then anyone else in the WIS.

last reply but you should check your stats..I know of at least 7 users who are blocked more than me. Plus the fact that so few people have blocked you shows that most of the people around here don't know what the hell they are doing.
And so nice to see you not name calling again. I want to block you because you think you are much smarter than you actually are and your posts are condescending to anyone you feel is not as smart as you, which is apparently everyone.
I also like how you said you were the only poster who reached out to all3 and bronxcheer when they were dying. How would you know who reached out to them? You wouldn't, but you just want to show what a decent human being you are compared to everyone else. I remember when you gave me **** because you felt I was not mourning my older sister correctly when she passed away. Like you get to decide what is the correct way to mourn. Go **** yourself.

on the mourning thing - you were playing sim and posting stuff the day after she died and it offended me. It was none of my business and I was completely wrong and I apologized to you profusely several times and I asked you several times to let me apologize on a forum but you said no. Several times I asked to do that.

I was accurate about nobody posting anything before or after Bronxcheer died except me.
And no one posted anything about All3 before he died either.

I say this just to reinforce that I don’t pull punches because nobody gives a damn about anyone around here.

Being number 8 on the blocked list is nothing to write home about.
What I find incredible is that you very rarely say anything interesting or controversial and it is just you being Captain Obvious and yet you have 83 blocks.

I have 9 but I push the envelope and I push back.
You would think that the numbers would be reversed.

Re Strikeout, you do seem principled then.

The clarification on the trans point regarding libertarianism isn't your personal views, it's more about whether you support bills that intervene between a person, a parent, and their doctor. You can personally think trans women aren't women and also not support anti trans bills that Republicans have passed, which I would imagine a person who believes in libertarian ideology would do.

I don't think dino really understands trans issues, and I am kinda confused by some of his rhetoric. I would imagine strikeout is caring enough to support whatever political measures would lead to the best outcomes for trans people, especially because he recognizes that gender dysphoria is a real condition. The most common treatment for gender dysphoria, as far as I'm aware, is social and medical gender transition. We can get into the philosophical "what is a woman" argument, but I really think the main focus should be on the mental and physical health of trans people.

I'm thoroughly uninterested in the abortion debate but I'd just like to point out that "what is alive" and "what is a human" aren't really the operative questions. It's whether we grant personhood and moral consideration to the being. Personhood is the real question when we consider abortion.

The questions around "what is a woman" and "what is a person" are philosophical in nature, not scientific.

It just irks me when people say "scientifically we can determine what a woman is" or "scientifically we can determine that fetuses are people," because no, we can't, those are philosophical arguments. You can get information that can help determine those judgements through science, but we can't come to an underlying conclusion.