Posted by Jtpsops on 2/29/2016 5:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/29/2016 5:16:00 PM (view original):
Jones has never had elite (or even good) range. He's been average to below average.

He covers a lot of ground - in that sense, his "range" is pretty good. As for measuring range in terms of metrics, he comes up short on more than his fair share of balls by playing way too shallow, which I suspect is the primary reason for his poor numbers, and rightfully so.

If he wasn't taking plays away from Markakis with his average-ish range, what's the point of your argument?

As I just said, I think a lot of his negative range comes from playing to shallow and being unable to get back on balls he should be catching. He covers a lot of ground laterally.

This link may not work right, but it looks like he has just as much trouble going side to side as he does going in and out.

http://www.fangraphs.com/spraycharts.aspx?playerid=6368&position=OF&type=fielding&pid2=6368&ss1=2012&se1=2014&ss2=2012&se2=2014&cht1=fielding_made&cht2=fielding_not&pos1=ALL&pos2=ALL .

His mass of "made plays" seems to stretch further across than a few other CFs I checked out. It's hard to get an accurate determination though.

Just like it would be hard to tell from watching games. It's why we need stats like UZR. So we can know that Jones has bad range, despite his reputation as a good defender.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/29/2016 8:51:00 PM (view original):
Just like it would be hard to tell from watching games. It's why we need stats like UZR. So we can know that Jones has bad range, despite his reputation as a good defender.

Or Jones is a good defender and UZR is flawed. Just because you buy into your stance, doesn't mean it's the right one.

To be fair, Adam Jones is 5th among all CF in UZR over the past 2 seasons...

Entirely due to his arm, not his range. Jones is not a bad player, he just isn't sucking up all the other outfielders chances with his range.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/29/2016 10:28:00 PM (view original):
Entirely due to his arm, not his range. Jones is not a bad player, he just isn't sucking up all the other outfielders chances with his range.

I respectfully disagree. I can only comment in depth on the O's because I watch them regularly, but Jones is constantly catching balls in front of his COFers. Buck's preferred OF alignment (which drives me nuts), is to play his COFers well off the lines ("everything down the line is gonna be a double anyway") so there's much more overlap than there needs to be between Jones and the other OFers. Jones definitely misses opportunities by playing too shallow though.

Almost all CF catch the easy fly balls in the gap that could go to the COFs. That's how baseball works. High fly ball between CF and RF, CF calls off RF.

Jones' range isn't good because he gets to those balls. All center fielders get to those balls. The fight fielder is not being penalized for that.