Critical news debate - Page 16 - Hardball Dynasty

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Posted by roundfrog on 5/8/2015 8:48:00 AM (view original):
I like making advance scouting relavant. I don't like it'll take me 2 to 3 seasons to react to the change. That's ~$50 per team for something they are changing and frankly punishing me for playing the game as it was designed.

It will take everyone 2-3 seasons to react to the change.

We're in the same division in Mantle. You have 2m more in ADV than I do. Woe is me, you have a huge advantage. Until you recognize that only 6 owners have 10m or more.

5/8/2015 8:50 AM

a_ersberg

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THERE ARE NO DICE IN CANDY LAND!!?!

5/8/2015 8:51 AM

MikeT23

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Really? Spin of the wheel?

5/8/2015 8:51 AM

deandg

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Not seeing current ratings of picks and prospects bothers me a bit. Part of my current strategy is to get guys who are close to the ML level and may be there in 2 years instead of 4. All other things being equal, if two players project at 80 OVR and one is currently at 70 while the other is at 58, I take the higher current ratings every time ( in my current rebuild situation).

I feel the changes are good and much needed.

On a side note... Rule 5 suddenly becomes much more interesting if player development becomes more sporadic. Those 23 year olds might still have some substantial room to grow. Time will tell.

5/8/2015 8:57 AM

mchales_army

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RIDICULOUS amounts of crying in all of the World Chats about "It's not fair", "They should allow a one time exception to the 4M change", "they are punishing those of us who have been gaming the system".

Some of them probably actually believe it. They are doing it on purpose to f all the vets who play the 0 ADV game.

Then there's others who say stuff like "seems to give vets more of an advantage." How I have no idea, but whatever.
"Doesn't solve the core problems of HBD" Like what?

5/8/2015 9:01 AM

MikeT23

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I believe a lot of people believe WifS is at fault for slow-filling worlds. So I'm sure that's the "core problems" they speak of.

This should be a boon for worlds that struggle to fill for a couple of seasons. "19 owners at 0 ADV. You can start at 14m. Think of the advantage you'll have!!!!"

5/8/2015 9:05 AM

damag

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Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2015 8:47:00 AM (view original):
But, hell, I'm in a giving mood.

As a 0 ADVer, I know what I'll do if it's actually important.

1. Increase to 4m.
2. Decrease by 4m whatever other budgets are directly affected by the new ADV(domestic/IFA).
3. Decrease prospect to 6m.
4. Use any "new" money on FA in an effort to win games(which is sort of the goal of the game anyway).
5. Do this until I get ADV where I'm comfortable.
6. Begin increasing the budgets catergories I reduced to get them where I need them.

Worst case scenario, I'm stuck at the same "disadvantage" as my leaguemates for 2-3 seasons.

End of the world.

Obviously if I'm at 0 ADV I can only go up to 4 in this first season. So...

WHAT am I going to see at 4 that makes me say "Oh hell it really works I need to do more of it?" Is it something that I won't notice till I get to 8 or 10 or 12?

OR, if I stay at Zero and say, "let's see what they're going to do to me", WHAT am I going to see that lets me know "Oh hell they did it to me?"

Having read over the Critical Update post, I still don't see where it actually says HOW it's going to put Zeros at a disadvantage.

5/8/2015 9:14 AM

MikeT23

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For the 0 ADV complainers.

In Coop, I went to 0 ADV in S9. 26 seasons of savings. 1 other owner was there in S9.   Two others joined us in S13.   How much of an advantage did I have and for how long?   A big one for a long time.

S10 in MG.   27 seasons of savings.    No one else was there until S14.   Another advantage for many seasons.

Now, as almost everyone is at 0 or on the way there, we're starting at the same point.   I got mine.   What do I have to complain about?

5/8/2015 9:17 AM

mchales_army

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What is really disappointing is that back on 2/18 they gave the first clue.

For a while now, we've been working on upgrading some of the technology we use for the site. While this doesn't always provide tangible benefits to you, it does allow us to more easily update things going forward... We have some other behind-the-scenes upgrades in progress as well, but our plan is to put a renewed focus on actual game updates very soon. We greatly appreciate your patience.

Then on 3/23 they made the announcement about the first big "under the hood" change. Which they closed with:
To reiterate the post above, this is another step we need to take so that we can return to frequent and meaningful updates to our games.

Then on 4/23 they revealed some minor changes that were great, and of course very quickly did owners murmur that it was nice but was mostly cosmetic.

MAKE ADV SCOUTING RELEVANT is the single most suggested change for the past few years. [Well, that and individual base stealing settings.

]

YOU HAD TO KNOW THIS WAS COMING.

5/8/2015 9:17 AM

MikeT23

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Posted by damag on 5/8/2015 9:14:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2015 8:47:00 AM (view original):
But, hell, I'm in a giving mood.

As a 0 ADVer, I know what I'll do if it's actually important.

1. Increase to 4m.
2. Decrease by 4m whatever other budgets are directly affected by the new ADV(domestic/IFA).
3. Decrease prospect to 6m.
4. Use any "new" money on FA in an effort to win games(which is sort of the goal of the game anyway).
5. Do this until I get ADV where I'm comfortable.
6. Begin increasing the budgets catergories I reduced to get them where I need them.

Worst case scenario, I'm stuck at the same "disadvantage" as my leaguemates for 2-3 seasons.

End of the world.
Obviously if I'm at 0 ADV I can only go up to 4 in this first season. So...

WHAT am I going to see at 4 that makes me say "Oh hell it really works I need to do more of it?" Is it something that I won't notice till I get to 8 or 10 or 12?

OR, if I stay at Zero and say, "let's see what they're going to do to me", WHAT am I going to see that lets me know "Oh hell they did it to me?"

Having read over the Critical Update post, I still don't see where it actually says HOW it's going to put Zeros at a disadvantage.

That's why I said "what I'll do if it's actually important".

If it's important to how you play, you have to react by moving up as much as you can as quickly as you can.
If it's not, well, it doesn't affect you.

Either way, almost every veteran of the game is starting at the same point. No disadvantage while we reconfigure our strategies.

5/8/2015 9:19 AM

arcticlegend

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The more I think about this, the more I'm starting to believe that adv still won't be too big of a deal.

The only thing it'll be useful for is projecting other people's prospects, right? I know Mike has speculated that they could use it to help project draft prospects' ratings somehow, but unless I missed something, they haven't hinted that they'll actually do that.

So if the only benefit of adv is to project other people's prospects, then it's still not that useful. I'm not a big trader, and when I do trade, it's usually just to add a veteran to help a playoff run. In the rare event that I want to trade for a prospect, I can refer back to my old draft projections, which I usually save in a folder on my laptop (unless I forget).

Sure, there is more reason to use adv now, but it's still sounding like its not worth cutting any other budgets. Actually, if this causes some other players in my worlds to waste money on adv, I'll be at an advantage. Especially in the first 3 seasons or so, when they can't even raise adv to a useful rate.

5/8/2015 9:21 AM

tecwrg

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Posted by damag on 5/8/2015 9:14:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2015 8:47:00 AM (view original):
But, hell, I'm in a giving mood.

As a 0 ADVer, I know what I'll do if it's actually important.

1. Increase to 4m.
2. Decrease by 4m whatever other budgets are directly affected by the new ADV(domestic/IFA).
3. Decrease prospect to 6m.
4. Use any "new" money on FA in an effort to win games(which is sort of the goal of the game anyway).
5. Do this until I get ADV where I'm comfortable.
6. Begin increasing the budgets catergories I reduced to get them where I need them.

Worst case scenario, I'm stuck at the same "disadvantage" as my leaguemates for 2-3 seasons.

End of the world.
Obviously if I'm at 0 ADV I can only go up to 4 in this first season. So...

WHAT am I going to see at 4 that makes me say "Oh hell it really works I need to do more of it?" Is it something that I won't notice till I get to 8 or 10 or 12?

OR, if I stay at Zero and say, "let's see what they're going to do to me", WHAT am I going to see that lets me know "Oh hell they did it to me?"

Having read over the Critical Update post, I still don't see where it actually says HOW it's going to put Zeros at a disadvantage.

It's the inability to see historical ratings.

Most 0 ADV people have moved to 0 over time because they figured out how to come up with accurate projections of where a player is going to top out without looking at projected ratings. They do it by looking at historical ratings, seeing the trend for an individual player, and then guesstimating where the player will end up. In fact, probably even more accurately than projected ratings. Which in turn made ADV a completely irrelevant component of the game for those owners who figured out how to do this, and felt comfortable with it.

These changes are specifically targeting that strategy and, if not eliminating it completely (the ratings dump to Excel will still allow people to do that if they want to take the time), it certainly makes it a lot harder to do, and gives incentive to move away from 0 ADV to something that will provide relevant info to work with.

5/8/2015 9:27 AM (edited)

MikeT23

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If ADV doesn't affect unsigned prospect projections, it doesn't change the game very much. I've been using development patterns to trade for younger players(although I don't do it all that much) and that will be off the table. So, on the rare occassion that I do make those deals, the player will just have to be closer to BL-ready.

If ADV does affect unsigned prospect projections, the 4-14m in IFA/Coll/HS I have in my worlds will be somewhat useless for a couple of seasons. I'll live. I can still bid on IFA, if I'm outbid at 5m, I'll assume he's worth having. And I'll sign Type A FA to negate the loss of my unprotected draft pick that would be a crapshoot.

5/8/2015 9:28 AM

MikeT23

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I still can't believe anyone is even considering dumping every roster into Excel. Insane.

5/8/2015 9:29 AM

sgmedia

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Posted by tecwrg on 5/8/2015 9:27:00 AM (view original):
Posted by damag on 5/8/2015 9:14:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2015 8:47:00 AM (view original):
But, hell, I'm in a giving mood.

As a 0 ADVer, I know what I'll do if it's actually important.

1. Increase to 4m.
2. Decrease by 4m whatever other budgets are directly affected by the new ADV(domestic/IFA).
3. Decrease prospect to 6m.
4. Use any "new" money on FA in an effort to win games(which is sort of the goal of the game anyway).
5. Do this until I get ADV where I'm comfortable.
6. Begin increasing the budgets catergories I reduced to get them where I need them.

Worst case scenario, I'm stuck at the same "disadvantage" as my leaguemates for 2-3 seasons.

End of the world.
Obviously if I'm at 0 ADV I can only go up to 4 in this first season. So...

WHAT am I going to see at 4 that makes me say "Oh hell it really works I need to do more of it?" Is it something that I won't notice till I get to 8 or 10 or 12?

OR, if I stay at Zero and say, "let's see what they're going to do to me", WHAT am I going to see that lets me know "Oh hell they did it to me?"

Having read over the Critical Update post, I still don't see where it actually says HOW it's going to put Zeros at a disadvantage.

It's the inability to see historical ratings.

Most 0 ADV people have moved to 0 over time because they figured out how to come up with accurate projections of where a player is going to top out without looking at projected ratings. They do it by looking at historical ratings, seeing the trend for an individual player, and then guesstimating where the player will end up. In fact, probably even more accurately than projected ratings. Which in turn made ADV a completely irrelevant component of the game for those owners who figured out how to do this, and felt comfortable with it.

These changes are specifically targeting that strategy and, if not eliminating it completely (the ratings dump to Excel will still allow people to do that if they want to take the time), it certainly makes it a lot harder to do, and gives incentive to move away from 0 ADV to something that will provide relevant info to work with.

I'm guessing the "fuzzier" projections on draft picks and IFAs will also be something that takes into account a combination of both your HS, College, or INT scouting and your ADV scouting. For example, someone with 18 HS and 14 ADV will see a lot closer projections on HS players than someone with 20 HS and 4 ADV, and someone with 20-20 will see the closest projections of all on their draft board.

5/8/2015 9:30 AM

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