You guys can defend Jeter all you want, but the fact is he is not a team-first guy. Ripken was a future HOF SS with a pretty damn good resume, but when the O's got Bordick, he stepped aside to improve the team. If the Yanks did sign Drew, where would he play? 2B. What would better serve the team? Jeter at 2B, Drew at SS.

Would never happen because Jeter wouldn't do it. And I don't give a **** if he's never been asked. If he was a team-first guy, he would be encouraging the team to get Drew and moving himself to 2B so the team didn't have to have Roberts or Johnson in the lineup.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/19/2014 1:27:00 PM (view original):
It was a good thing that Boone wrecked his knee then, because Arod was way better (at least for the first 6 or 7 years after the trade).

Boone probably doesn't think it was a good thing.

Anyway, it was a long time before the Yanks won the WS with A-Rod.    Not saying Boone was better but the end results sure were.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/19/2014 2:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 2/19/2014 2:09:00 PM (view original):
What makes you think so many people are able to play third?

What makes you so stuck in tunnel-vision that you ignore most of what I say?  I said JETER has range issues because of reaction time.  I specifically referred to the fact that he is NOT slow and can accelerate quickly.  Longoria is much slower and accelerates much less quickly.  He would have range problems at SS for entirely different reasons.  It's like I said - no ability whatsoever to look at the game on the field rationally and come up with reasons why things happen the way they do...

But seriously, how many people do you think are good defensive third basemen?  I don't see all that many more than I do shortstops...

There are many possible explanations for Jeter's lack of range. I think a fundamental flaw in his positioning is a good explanation. He played too shallow in order to get to the slowly hit grounders to allow him to get to balls hit deep between short and third or up the middle. He corrected that later in his career and started getting to more balls hit far left and right but then struggled with slow grounders.

I don't see any reason that he couldn't have handled the switch to third earlier in his career, though that would have been a dumb idea.

I tend to agree with BL a bit here.   And that disturbs me a bit.  Fortunately, I disagree enough in the same way.

Jeter always seemed to be out of position.    I don't think foot speed is a very big factor at 3B(or SS for that matter).   The ability to "read" the ball and make the proper first reaction is the difference-maker in the IF.    If he's slow to read the ball off the bat, he gets destroyed at 3B.  Moreso than at SS.

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/19/2014 2:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/19/2014 1:27:00 PM (view original):
It was a good thing that Boone wrecked his knee then, because Arod was way better (at least for the first 6 or 7 years after the trade).

Boone probably doesn't think it was a good thing.

Anyway, it was a long time before the Yanks won the WS with A-Rod.    Not saying Boone was better but the end results sure were.

From the Yankees perspective, having Arod was better than having Boone.

Posted by burnsy483 on 2/19/2014 1:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/19/2014 1:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/19/2014 12:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 2/19/2014 12:05:00 PM (view original):
When did Mike say that "Jeter would never have budged" if asked by the Yankees to switch positions?

I didn't.    To the best of our knowledge, he was never asked and he never volunteered.   

We do know that Cashman said trading for A-Rod revolved around his willingness to switch positions.   Did they ask Jeter and he said "no"?   Or did they project A-Rod to be a 3B as he aged like Ripken?    We don't know.

This.   The trade was contingent on A-Rod moving.    Do we know why the Yanks asked A-Rod if he'd play 3B?   No, we do not.

I mean, Jeter is better served at 3B too - his range also got worse.

I get not asking Jeter to move from SS.  I understand the reasoning.  But at that moment, the team was better off with Jeter learning to play 3B.  We know Jeter didn't volunteer. 

Is he?   I don't think players wake up and say "Hey, I'll just play --insert position-- and it will be easy because I've played SS since Little League."

Honestly, I think the selfish ***** Ripken moved to 3B because it was less wear and tear.  Made it easier for him to continue the streak.    Wouldn't be surprised to find out that A-Rod agreed to move so he could chase the HR record without exhausting himself in the field.    Rickey didn't want to play CF because it hurt his basestealing.   This sort of thing is not unheard of.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/19/2014 3:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/19/2014 2:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/19/2014 1:27:00 PM (view original):
It was a good thing that Boone wrecked his knee then, because Arod was way better (at least for the first 6 or 7 years after the trade).

Boone probably doesn't think it was a good thing.

Anyway, it was a long time before the Yanks won the WS with A-Rod.    Not saying Boone was better but the end results sure were.

From the Yankees perspective, having Arod was better than having Boone.

A-Rod better than Boone.   Can't be argued.  

I honestly don't know how big the distraction of A-Rod was to a professional athlete.  I'd like to think minimal.    But, when teams underperform, you have to ask why. Obviously many teams have won with poor "chemistry" if that's the word to use.   But the '98 Yankees won a lot of games with a bunch of non-stars. 

I actually thought Jeter had poor acceleration, especially up the middle. Seems like he was running in quicksand sometimes.  I never got the impression he wasn't reading the ball off the bat poorly.  But then again, you don't see that on tv.

And he did steal bases, which you need acceleration for. I'm contradicting myself here.

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/19/2014 3:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 2/19/2014 1:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/19/2014 1:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/19/2014 12:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 2/19/2014 12:05:00 PM (view original):
When did Mike say that "Jeter would never have budged" if asked by the Yankees to switch positions?

I didn't.    To the best of our knowledge, he was never asked and he never volunteered.   

We do know that Cashman said trading for A-Rod revolved around his willingness to switch positions.   Did they ask Jeter and he said "no"?   Or did they project A-Rod to be a 3B as he aged like Ripken?    We don't know.

This.   The trade was contingent on A-Rod moving.    Do we know why the Yanks asked A-Rod if he'd play 3B?   No, we do not.

I mean, Jeter is better served at 3B too - his range also got worse.

I get not asking Jeter to move from SS.  I understand the reasoning.  But at that moment, the team was better off with Jeter learning to play 3B.  We know Jeter didn't volunteer. 

Is he?   I don't think players wake up and say "Hey, I'll just play --insert position-- and it will be easy because I've played SS since Little League."

Honestly, I think the selfish ***** Ripken moved to 3B because it was less wear and tear.  Made it easier for him to continue the streak.    Wouldn't be surprised to find out that A-Rod agreed to move so he could chase the HR record without exhausting himself in the field.    Rickey didn't want to play CF because it hurt his basestealing.   This sort of thing is not unheard of.

You are such an idiot. Ripken moved to 3B because it was less wear-and-tear? Keep stretching. I think all those truck stop whores are killing what little intelligence you may have had.

Posted by Jtpsops on 2/19/2014 2:38:00 PM (view original):
You guys can defend Jeter all you want, but the fact is he is not a team-first guy. Ripken was a future HOF SS with a pretty damn good resume, but when the O's got Bordick, he stepped aside to improve the team. If the Yanks did sign Drew, where would he play? 2B. What would better serve the team? Jeter at 2B, Drew at SS.

Would never happen because Jeter wouldn't do it. And I don't give a **** if he's never been asked. If he was a team-first guy, he would be encouraging the team to get Drew and moving himself to 2B so the team didn't have to have Roberts or Johnson in the lineup.

Can we just fast forward to the part where you tell us about how Saint Calvin walks on water, has developed cures for cancer and AIDS, and will reverse global warming?

He has basically the same opinion of Ripken that you seem to have of Jeter.

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/19/2014 8:32:00 AM (view original):
I was attempting to think of a recent star that was moved against his will.   Hanley Ramirez is the only one that comes to mind.   How'd that work out?

Alfonso Soriano was forced to move from 2B to LF when Washington acquired him in a trade and responded with his best offensive season .277/.351/.560 and joined the 40/40 club.  He had made 4 straight all star appearances prior to that season, so some people might have considered him a star at the time.

Posted by ncmusician_7 on 2/19/2014 7:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/19/2014 8:32:00 AM (view original):
I was attempting to think of a recent star that was moved against his will.   Hanley Ramirez is the only one that comes to mind.   How'd that work out?

Alfonso Soriano was forced to move from 2B to LF when Washington acquired him in a trade and responded with his best offensive season .277/.351/.560 and joined the 40/40 club.  He had made 4 straight all star appearances prior to that season, so some people might have considered him a star at the time.

Soriano was the last Yankee SS prospect after Jeter.   He was slotted to open the season in LF because he was never making it at SS.   However, Mr. Knoblauch caught the yips and couldn't make a throw to 1B.  Knobs goes to LF in ST and Soriano learns 2B on the fly.    He was summarily moved to Texas.   He wasn't there long before he was shipped off to Washington.   He was there a year before going to Chicago as a FA..

One could argue that he was a baseball nomad and never really settled into a position.  He was not part of the 2B plan in NY until he had to be part of the 2B plan.  

BTW, lol at jtpops.    It must be nice to be able to dig into the minds of professional athletes and know why they did something in the past and why they would never do something in the future.   

I may unblock that dumb bastard so I can get these pearls of wisdom without the re-quote.