llama,

I hold others to the same standards I hold myself. As much as you'd like to believe otherwise, there are no strawmen or goalposts here.

I was quite content to allow an agreement to disagree. They decided that wasn't good enough. I was fine to let things go, but it's just so entertaining to watch them scramble to argue against me with nothing more than wild assertions they are right and claiming they all agree so they're right.

If you're not arguing against my position, then I"m not even sure why you're posting. If you don't like my arguments, you don't have to respond. If you want to, fine, but I'm not sure of the point.

You DON'T have an argument.  You have never offered any evidence to support your position, other than the person you are talking about probably exists. No evidenve

I'm not sure of the point.

Clearly.

I'm explaining to you why people, such as myself, have a problem with your arguments.

Also:  "I was fine to let things go, but it's just so entertaining to watch them scramble to argue against me with nothing more than wild assertions they are right and claiming they all agree so they're right."

Posted by ryrun on 9/4/2012 1:21:00 PM (view original):

You have problems with the way I argue because I do it incredibly well.

Thanks... I needed a good laugh.

aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhahahah hilarious.

maybe we are all looking at things the wrong way. maybe bistiza is three years old. if so, His Lordship is really a spectacular orator, as He so accurately informs us gutter trash, and we should give His Greatness much praise. 

milwood,

The people do exist and I explained that to you before. It's just probability.

llama,

People have a problem with the way I argue because of the difficulty of arguing against it. I already know that.

And yes, I'm being entertained by their running around trying to prove me wrong. If they'd just say they'd agree to disagree, though, I"m fine with that. Really. There's no need to go on arguing.

Posted by ryrun on 9/4/2012 9:25:00 AM (view original):

The reason I said "I give credit when it's due" is because it's the simple truth. The point of that is this: If you were right, I'd have said so. If I didn't say so, then you didn't make nearly as convincing of an argument as you think, no matter who else might agree with you, because the true test is convincing the skeptics, not the believers. You should care if you can convince me I'm wrong - as I said, that's the true sign you were right. You can claim not to care, but that doesn't help your position at all.

I now bring to you, a morning in the life of bistiza (there are seemingly longer than normal time gaps due to the excessive self back patting that goes on):

6:00am : Our glorious expert wakes from His slumber. He wakes at 6am without an alarm clock, because He doesn't need such crutches like the rest of us. His body is supposed to just accept that it is to wake at 6am, because His brain is in charge and it says so. No snoozing is accepted.

6:10am : The Credit Giver hops onto His email to see if that Nigerian prince had given Him an update on when the $1,000,000 would be deposited into His checking account. He sent the $10,000 check weeks ago as requested. Surely people don't lie.

6:30am : The Chosen One logs in to WIS to see verify that His teams have undoubtedly won their games the previous night. You see, He told them that they are supposed to win and that He would not suffer through losing. He is in charge of this team and what He says must happen as this is a reality based game and that is the reality He lives in.

7:00am : What's this? Mankind's Gift has endured losses from the previous night? This cannot be! Quickly, off to the forums to speak of these travesties and gain reassurance that it was due to circumstances out of His control! Then a quick scan to see if any posts are worthy of His giving of credit where credit is due - which of course there are none save for His own.

7:30am : After The Almighty finishes writing the most intelligent piece of literature this forum has ever seen (since His previous post, of course), it's back to the rosters to check on His players. Oh, look - a green mail icon. One of His peons has decided to send his Master a note. How quaint. No doubt it is to apologize for the loss and offer a freshman sacrifice to right this terrible wrong. Wait a second... Doth thine eyes deceive Him? This ant is upset that he is only receiving 6 minutes per game rather than the 10 he expects? Does this speck of a human not understand that The Great Bistiza has spoken and is the one in charge here? The WIS GOAT will not tolerate such insubordination! How dare this bottom feeder consider questioning how He runs His team? Now His Highness is forced to suffer through the indignation of reorganizing His depth chart to cave to the desires of this runt. He simply has no other choice.

9:30am : After two hours of crunching the numbers and expert analysis, The Creator of Dreams has found an extra four minutes to give to the beggar.

10:30am : Following some phone calls from collection companies harping about overdue fees and telling them that He will pay when He decides (as it is His money and He is in charge of it), it's back to check on another of His teams. Wait - this cannot be! Another servant has shown displeasure over the redshirt that The Incredible Bistiza had bestowed upon the peon. How does this player not understand that this is for the betterment of the team? How dare this prima donna question His Majesty on such matters? Now the rest of His morning must be consumed by more suffering and caving to the desires of these unreasonable and unappreciative peasants.

i like the freshman sacrifice. of course, if it were in the best interest of His Lordship, any one of His players of the Round Ball would gladly pay with his own, worthless life. what selfish 19 year old basketball star would value his lowly flesh more highly than the disgrace he has inflicted upon His Holy Master? obviously, no such player exists. or maybe later, His Lordship will change his mind, decreeing that such a worthless fool does exist - however, there are just a few of them, and He should be able to distinguish these puny insects with His Holy Eyes. that way, He can fill His chairs of the Round Ball with only the most honorable and noble simulated teenage sensations.

As to the individual discussing suffering, it's funny you only mentioned it with regards to the analogy (which, by the way, I'm not going to play your game and start arguing over what an analogy is - if you don't get it, don't pretend like I'm the one who doesn't get it).


Previously, you said that I was only interested in discussing your awful analogies because I couldn't "deal with" the point you are making.  I did try to address it earlier though, by way of agreement with another poster's argument:

Posted by theeyetest on 9/4/2012 8:13:00 AM (view original):
I'm convinced that WiS hires interns to take ridiculous stances on aspects of the HD engine just to rally support for the game.

Hmm.  I didn't think of that before, but have wondered if they use interns to act as terrible managers and coaches so customers could feel a little better about their wins and losses, and thus want to pay for more seasons.

the funniest part of this whole thing is there is a system in place where some juniors care more about playing time than others, and you were able to figure it out very clearly during recruiting, until just recently. but to some extent, you still can figure it out. assuming seble did not change all the other things in the game that relied on personality, i believe he said the NBA thing was the last significant thing, but i believe these little ones still exist. not sure though.

obviously seble would disagree with His Greatness, that such a feature was worth keeping around. but maybe His Lordship will have more luck convincing seble than, well, every single other person who has heard His Word. but i doubt it. 

my vote is to bring back the 1500 dollar psych evals to shut bistiza up, and also, to force Him to use one on every single player, like He claims He would. oh, how great that would be for Him, knowing His Holy juniors shall not complain, forcing His Holy Master to decide between doing nothing, and lifting His Holy Finger to make a small change. and that would be great for the rest of us idiots, too stupid to understand what an analogy is, because we wouldn't have to compete with His Lordship in any recruiting battles - for His Lordship would be one broke *** Lordship :)

Bistiza's horse.

Posted by bistiza on 9/4/2012 2:19:00 PM (view original):
milwood,

The people do exist and I explained that to you before. It's just probability.

llama,

People have a problem with the way I argue because of the difficulty of arguing against it. I already know that.

And yes, I'm being entertained by their running around trying to prove me wrong. If they'd just say they'd agree to disagree, though, I"m fine with that. Really. There's no need to go on arguing.

Where is the difficulty here? It is very easy to argue against why your stance on this aswrong, especially if we are talking reality here. If you want to know how a  ball player will react to playing 5 min/gm vs. 25 before he comes to your school then I want to know exactly how high his high/high potential is in DEF, PER, and ATH. I want to know if a player with high/high potential in def with a start rating of 35 will grow to reach 99 or else I won't recruit him. In essence these two examples are on the same plane and both are highly unrealistic. Just as I can only logically estimate potential so can you only logically estimate personality.

Based on the info provided I can still end up -36pts in the DEF I would want my player to have vs. his actual potential even though he is listed high/high- as you may recruit a player who's fine with avg 5 min/ gm as a fresh and soph. How can you realistically account for what will occur in the future? Unless you are recruiting robots this is just not possible. You have the power to cut a player as a coach because of unforseen circumstance. While I agree every player shouldn't have the same reaction as upperclassmen- I do see the logic in having an upperclassmen more likely to demand playing time. In reality some would not complain and some would but as a coach, there is definitely NO WAY you could know what type of player,personality wise,you will have 2 or 3 years from the present. You think because you have a questionaire all facts are known about a player and how he will react to your coaching style? The players you want do exist but there's no way you can be absolutely sure they will be who they say they will be as freshmen by the time they are seniors. There are just way too many variables for that.

On the other hand, BillyG - he would have a roster full of Walkons who would NEVER complain!!!!

piper,

I don't want the sim to "guarantee how a computer simulated teen would change as he becomes a man".  That's taking my simple stance and making it seem way more complex than it is.

All I'm asking is for my DIII player who was recruited by someone else to be willing to take five less minutes per game than he seems to be willing to take. That's ALL there is to it. The rest of this stuff has nothing to do with my argument at all and is merely side fodder we got into because it was somewhat related to the orignal point.

What I want from the sim is the ability for a DIII player to spend a few less minutes in the game and still have him not lose so much WE. Very few real players would complain over five minutes of playing time, and even if they did, they wouldn't lose that much effort over it. They'd talk to the coach and probably concede the five minutes because they play for a great team and will get more minutes their senior year.

Unfortunately, I can't have that discussion with a player in the sim, so he can't come to those terms with me. There is no grey area where I can help him understand. So I'm asking for him to simply not make the demand in the first place since there is no way to negotiate and get to that area between where he gets his demands and I get what I want as a coach.

And in all seriousness, I've never changed my opinion on the central stance I've taken. I've been saying the same thing all along.

?If you want to know how a  ball player will react to playing 5 min/gm vs. 25 before he comes to your school
 

Right here is the problem with misinterpretation.

In the case of my player, we're NOT talking about 5 vs. 25 - we're talking about 5 vs. 10. Huge difference.

?The players you want do exist but there's no way you can be absolutely sure they will be who they say they will be as freshmen by the time they are seniors. There are just way too many variables for that.

This is one of the most logical points anyone has made. The players do exist, but it IS difficult to tell who they are. In real life, there would be more ways to potentially attempt to know. In the sim, it's impossible, I agree.

You said you haven't changed your stance.  Now you just said this: "All I'm asking is for my DIII player who was recruited by someone else to be willing to take five less minutes per game than he seems to be willing to take. That's ALL there is to it."  That is a complete change from your original position, which is that they should take whatever you give them and if they don't like it they should work harder.  Why 5 minutes less now?  Because that's what's convenient for your 1 player on your 1 team in this 1 instance?  Seriously?  Get over yourself.  The burden of proof is never on the large group, it's always on the dissenter.  The fact that you don't realize that and seem convinced that it's everyone else's job to convince you that you are wrong is borderline hilarious.  The reality is that you are a moron trying to portray yourself as a brilliant debater.  The facade is too thin.  Everyone can see that you're a moron.  Obviously we're never going to convince you that we're right, because at various points in this thread there have been at least 5 or 6 really convincing arguments that any rational human being would have at least thought about in depth before laughing off which you dismissed offhand.  The only conclusion is that you are not capable of rational thought.  Because you're a moron.  That is all.