536 HRs for Ortiz Topic

tecwrg
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There truly is no depth to BL's stupidity.
9/19/2016 11:34 AM
toddcommish
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I don't need stats (advanced or otherwise) to tell me whether a guy is a "power hitter".

I watch the games.

9/19/2016 11:44 AM
bad_luck
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Posted by Jtpsops on 9/19/2016 11:29:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 9/19/2016 11:14:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 9/19/2016 10:46:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 9/19/2016 10:28:00 AM (view original):
I look at power as the ability to get extra base hits.
So a fast player who can flair a hit down the line and stretch it into a double because of his speed is a "power hitter" in BL's magic book of baseball?

And the fat, slow player who can hit a laser off the wall and be held to a single because he's slower than **** is not?
Power is just a label. Who cares how strong you are if you still just hit singles? And who cares how strong you aren't if you are fast enough to turn singles into doubles?
So what's the purpose of having stats that attempt to measure power?
If a guy gets a lot of doubles, is that better than a guy who gets a lot of singles?
9/19/2016 11:45 AM
tecwrg
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Posted by bad_luck on 9/19/2016 11:45:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Jtpsops on 9/19/2016 11:29:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 9/19/2016 11:14:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 9/19/2016 10:46:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 9/19/2016 10:28:00 AM (view original):
I look at power as the ability to get extra base hits.
So a fast player who can flair a hit down the line and stretch it into a double because of his speed is a "power hitter" in BL's magic book of baseball?

And the fat, slow player who can hit a laser off the wall and be held to a single because he's slower than **** is not?
Power is just a label. Who cares how strong you are if you still just hit singles? And who cares how strong you aren't if you are fast enough to turn singles into doubles?
So what's the purpose of having stats that attempt to measure power?
If a guy gets a lot of doubles, is that better than a guy who gets a lot of singles?
9/19/2016 12:17 PM
MikeT23
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Clownshoes is moving the goal posts again.

9/19/2016 12:23 PM
dahsdebater
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Posted by MikeT23 on 9/19/2016 10:21:00 AM (view original):
BL's head is gonna explode. And I'll agree with him in advance. RBI is a terrible way to judge power. Or pretty much anything other than getting a hit when a runner is on base.
I didn't say you judge power by RBI. I would base it on the probability of amassing RBI in any given situation. That scales reasonably well with SLG.
9/19/2016 12:36 PM
MikeT23
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That's still very flawed. In most cases, a single will score a runner from 2nd. The only time you really need an extra base hit to score is empty or on 1st only.
9/19/2016 12:47 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by dahsdebater on 9/19/2016 12:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/19/2016 10:21:00 AM (view original):
BL's head is gonna explode. And I'll agree with him in advance. RBI is a terrible way to judge power. Or pretty much anything other than getting a hit when a runner is on base.
I didn't say you judge power by RBI. I would base it on the probability of amassing RBI in any given situation. That scales reasonably well with SLG.
A line drive double into the gap with the bases empty (probability of amassing 0 RBI) is just as much power as the exact same line drive double into the gap with the bases empty (probability of amassing 3 RBI).

Do you want the cymbal monkey too?
9/19/2016 12:54 PM
MikeT23
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As tec said, RBI is largely a product of opportunity. Player A has 4 wall-denting doubles in a game and 0 RBI because all came with the bases empty. Player B got two RBI on a Texas Leaguer with the bases loaded. He also hit three weak dribblers.

Again, a 380 ft flyball can be a deep fly out or clear the fence by 60 feet. But both may have left the bat at 101 MPH. That's pretty strong regardless of the end result.

The end result of an AB doesn't tell the full story when discussing power.

9/19/2016 12:54 PM
Jtpsops
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Posted by bad_luck on 9/19/2016 11:45:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Jtpsops on 9/19/2016 11:29:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 9/19/2016 11:14:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 9/19/2016 10:46:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 9/19/2016 10:28:00 AM (view original):
I look at power as the ability to get extra base hits.
So a fast player who can flair a hit down the line and stretch it into a double because of his speed is a "power hitter" in BL's magic book of baseball?

And the fat, slow player who can hit a laser off the wall and be held to a single because he's slower than **** is not?
Power is just a label. Who cares how strong you are if you still just hit singles? And who cares how strong you aren't if you are fast enough to turn singles into doubles?
So what's the purpose of having stats that attempt to measure power?
If a guy gets a lot of doubles, is that better than a guy who gets a lot of singles?
That really depends. 100 singles and 50 doubles is the same, total base-wise, as 200 singles. It's just a different kind of production. Ichiro has had a pretty good ML career hitting mostly singles.

And as was already pointed out, XBH are not necessarily a measure of "power" as doubles and triples can be more influenced by the speed of the hitter, rather than the strength.
9/19/2016 12:59 PM
dahsdebater
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Posted by tecwrg on 9/19/2016 12:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 9/19/2016 12:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/19/2016 10:21:00 AM (view original):
BL's head is gonna explode. And I'll agree with him in advance. RBI is a terrible way to judge power. Or pretty much anything other than getting a hit when a runner is on base.
I didn't say you judge power by RBI. I would base it on the probability of amassing RBI in any given situation. That scales reasonably well with SLG.
A line drive double into the gap with the bases empty (probability of amassing 0 RBI) is just as much power as the exact same line drive double into the gap with the bases empty (probability of amassing 3 RBI).

Do you want the cymbal monkey too?
Surprise surprise, you either ignored what I said or just aren't capable of understanding it. We're using SLG as the measuring stick here, not RBI. The guy who hits more doubles will, over a large sample size, tend to drive in more runners than the guy who hits fewer. Sometimes there will be runners on first and 2nd who would not score with singles but will score with doubles. So the guy amassing more XBH will drive in more runs. But there will also be runners on 2nd and 3rd who will score when any hit occurs. So a guy who gets more hits will also drive in more runs than a guy who doesn't amass hits. And a guy who hits HRs will obviously drive in extra runs. All of these things are reflected in SLG. Which is why SLG works well enough for me as a measure of power.

Again, even though you guys have continued to refer to it in responses to me in spite of the fact that I already explicitly stated that I don't care about it - I don't care how hard a guy hits the ball. I care about the end result of said contact. 2014 Chris Davis still hit the ball hard. He just didn't hit it very often. Sure, he fit the "hit the ball hard definition of power." So what? He was a hole in the lineup. He slugged .404. Nothing to write home about. You can have your definition of power in which a guy like that is still a power hitter. I'll stick with my baseball-relevant definition in which he's basically a bum.
9/19/2016 1:13 PM
Jtpsops
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You're also missing the fact that XBH occur less often than singles, so over the course of a season, RBI opportunities/successfully cashed in with singles should balance out with XBH.
9/19/2016 1:14 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by dahsdebater on 9/19/2016 1:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 9/19/2016 12:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 9/19/2016 12:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/19/2016 10:21:00 AM (view original):
BL's head is gonna explode. And I'll agree with him in advance. RBI is a terrible way to judge power. Or pretty much anything other than getting a hit when a runner is on base.
I didn't say you judge power by RBI. I would base it on the probability of amassing RBI in any given situation. That scales reasonably well with SLG.
A line drive double into the gap with the bases empty (probability of amassing 0 RBI) is just as much power as the exact same line drive double into the gap with the bases empty (probability of amassing 3 RBI).

Do you want the cymbal monkey too?
Surprise surprise, you either ignored what I said or just aren't capable of understanding it. We're using SLG as the measuring stick here, not RBI. The guy who hits more doubles will, over a large sample size, tend to drive in more runners than the guy who hits fewer. Sometimes there will be runners on first and 2nd who would not score with singles but will score with doubles. So the guy amassing more XBH will drive in more runs. But there will also be runners on 2nd and 3rd who will score when any hit occurs. So a guy who gets more hits will also drive in more runs than a guy who doesn't amass hits. And a guy who hits HRs will obviously drive in extra runs. All of these things are reflected in SLG. Which is why SLG works well enough for me as a measure of power.

Again, even though you guys have continued to refer to it in responses to me in spite of the fact that I already explicitly stated that I don't care about it - I don't care how hard a guy hits the ball. I care about the end result of said contact. 2014 Chris Davis still hit the ball hard. He just didn't hit it very often. Sure, he fit the "hit the ball hard definition of power." So what? He was a hole in the lineup. He slugged .404. Nothing to write home about. You can have your definition of power in which a guy like that is still a power hitter. I'll stick with my baseball-relevant definition in which he's basically a bum.
Don't say I didn't warn you . . .

9/19/2016 1:19 PM
dahsdebater
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Man, you really got me now.
9/19/2016 1:29 PM
dahsdebater
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Tec like Chris. Chris hit ball hard.
9/19/2016 1:29 PM
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