Dynamic Pricing Feedback - Page 2 - SimLeague Baseball

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" We are also considering a theme league option that allows an owner to decide whether league should use the base salaries (current salaries) or the dynamic salaries (latest and greatest)."

IS THE "BASE SALARY" THE LAST SALARY IN PLACE FOR THE PLAYER (AS RAISED OR LOWERED) AT THE TIME THE LEAGUE IS FORMED OR THE NOW CURRENT SALARY IN PLACE BEFORE DYNAMIC SALARIES COMMENCE.

11/17/2015 12:06 PM

dahsdebater

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I have a few major concerns here. I don't play OLs. I think this is a great concept for OLs, based on what I saw when I did play them periodically years ago. But the problems will largely concern themes. My biggest concern is this. The vast majority of leagues seem to be lower caps, since OLs account for such a healthy percentage of leagues. That means that the guys who are expensive will likely wind up dropping somewhat in price, not because they are underused for the caps at which they are relevant, but because there just aren't as many leagues in which owners can afford a position player with a $10 million+ salary. Conversely, the very best players may be unfairly price hiked. It's not that '20 and '21 Ruth, 2000 Pedro, and '95 Maddux are necessarily priced too inexpensively right now. It's just that they're the absolute best players in the sim, so at the highest caps they will always be heavily used. But they don't need to see a price increase.

11/17/2015 12:07 PM

dahsdebater

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I also think 10% per 2 weeks is WAY too big of an adjustment cap. I'd much rather see something like 3-4%.

11/17/2015 12:08 PM

verynice

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open leagues only.. I am in a live regressive league where you are allowed 15 keepers. they have to be posted by 100th game played (whether simmed or live) The draft order is based on total keeper salary. This could throw off draft order depending on when owners sitemail commish their keepers and salaries. This i think would be an issue if an owner enters a team a few weeks later and your over the cap. Also what will happen if a league number is issued and your team is entered with little to no cap space and you are awaiting other owners to get their teams in? That would be a step backward in filling leagues especially if its done every 2 weeks. Most owners do not want to go back and have to redraft a team that they worked on because of a salary increase... maybe do it every time new player seasons become available, so all know when to expect it

11/17/2015 12:10 PM

schwarze

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Thinking about this some more, two weeks does seem like a very short time frame for salary updates. As an Actuary, I always want to minimize variance. There may not be enough of a sample size in two just weeks to warrant a salary increase or decrease. I would think a month would be the minimum. And I agree with the suggestion above that some sort of running average should be used instead of just a snapshot. For example, if updating salaries every month, use a three-month average (least weight), a two-month average (medium weight) and a one-month average (most weight) to determine the new salaries

11/17/2015 12:11 PM

schwarze

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dahsdebater makes some interesting points.

The relative number of open leagues vs. higher cap theme leagues could have an unexpected effect on salaries of certain players. If there are 100 open leagues for every 10 high cap theme leagues, then the super high priced players will become cheaper than they should be not because they are mis-priced but because of the inequities between the number of low-to-high cap leagues.

Wouldn't it make sense to use a different baseline for open league (and low-cap theme league) player ownership as compared to high-cap theme league player ownership? I haven't thought through the math yet, but I'm sure something could be developed.

11/17/2015 12:23 PM

BullMoose

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I'll go against the grain, I think it is a terrible idea. Adjusting salaries every now and then fine....some need to be. But every two weeks is foolish and will undoubtedly lead to problems in progressives as well as any capped league, whether it is a salary based format and you are turning in your rosters at game 120 or it is a draft underway. This plan smells of trying to keep up with the "draft kings' and "Fan Duels" gambling sites of the world and this is much more truly a game. The only solid thing I read is allowing a commish to choose a basic salary format.....and that has problems because many commishes can't get a league number until their team is ready to be entered...and salaries have changed during the very common "off the clock portion" clear through the timed slots. (not to mention Career Leagues with cap)...what if the commish has the most picks in a certain draft, loads the league, and discovers several teams over the cap....even seasons later you can't predict what kind of salary. Now this latest could be solved by issuing free team to the Commish as soon as the commish registers the intent to start a team....the team would have to be locked to the league number that was given at the time.

OF COURSE IT WON'T REALLY MATTER IF IT TAKES 3 YEARS TO BEGIN--WHY DON'T WE TAKE CARE OF THE OTHER UPDATE FIRST.

11/17/2015 12:28 PM

schwarze

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Example:

There are 80 low cap leagues (90M and below)
There are 20 high cap leagues (100M and above)

1921 Ruth is owned in 0 low cap leagues and 10 high cap leagues. Overall, his ownership is 10% (but it's 50% of the high cap leagues).
1975 Gary Carter is owned in 40 low cap leagues and 0 high cap leagues. Overall, his ownership is 40% (but it's 50% of the low cap leagues)

Yes, Gary Carter's salary should go up. But does it make sense for Ruth's salary to go down?

11/17/2015 12:31 PM

dbjerke

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how will you treat players who are traded during the year, will all of their records for that season be combined such that they are all adjusted, or will they be treated as discrete units. as an example, 2015 Cespedes has 4 records in the system, I assume he most often could have one of his full (combined) season records drafted, or due to the variance in stats and other reasons someone may decided to take his partial Mets or Tigers season. Will these selections all be added together and his adjustment will occur based on total selections for these four records, or will they be treated as separate records and each record will vary?

My assumption is all player records from that season will be combined as one for this purpose, but I would like to understand this?

Because I primarily only play progressive single season leagues, my second question relates to a concern in simply the number of times certain player are drafted due to being part of multi year leagues or theme type leagues. it seems that many salaried players at the lower end of the spectrum will see their overall salary go down because they are always going to be drafted less often, and the players at the high end of the spectrum will really be those going up or down based on the theme and open league drafting that occurs. Do you feel this will be true? or does say 1976 Garry Templeton get drafted roughly as often as 1976 George Brett? I suspect not because the 1976 Templeton is likely only going to be drafted in a 76 league only, whereas a 1976 Brett could be drafted in a variety of leagues...

11/17/2015 12:31 PM

mattedesa

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I can understand the concern about fewer high cap leagues making top salary players drop a lot in price, but I think it only adds a unique wrinkle to drafting. I think the market will correct itself over time. It'll be fun to scout out what players were previously too highly priced for an open league that slowly creep into a usable range. The only possible problem I see is from those who enjoy the 255M cap leagues - most of their players will drop in price, possibly making it tough to effectively use all $255M. Maybe eventually a lower top cap would be appropriate?

11/17/2015 12:43 PM

jvt87

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Players are drafted based on their perceived value over time, so this is the Las Vegas equivalent of adding extra decks to the shoe.
Two weeks is absurdly frequent for adjustments, and 10 percent is far too much variation based on such limited data.

11/17/2015 12:45 PM

ozomatli

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Posted by jvt87 on 11/17/2015 12:45:00 PM (view original):
Players are drafted based on their perceived value over time, so this is the Las Vegas equivalent of adding extra decks to the shoe.
Two weeks is absurdly frequent for adjustments, and 10 percent is far too much variation based on such limited data.

Agreed. In two weeks, expecting that the average player will be able to determine who is truly undervalued will be a difficult task since the amount of games played has a max of 42 per league but, since leagues also need to fill before data can even be collected, it's likely this number will be smaller. This will cause fluctuations based in things other than actual usefulness in the sim, over time. If, each time, this is allowed to be 10%, there could be some very poor numbers after just a few cycles.

schwarze and dahsdebater make good points also.

11/17/2015 1:17 PM (edited)

schneed10

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I think I agree that 10% sounds like a pretty harsh adjustment. Go smaller, 3-4%, or update it more infrequently.

And I agree with Schwarze in saying that the relative usage of players in various salary ranges needs to be taken into account. It does not make sense for Ruth to see a salary reduction given that he's hardly ever picked in $80M leagues. You'd have to tier it somehow.

11/17/2015 12:57 PM

tzentmeyer

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Please keep the feedback coming. Lot's of great points raised so far.

11/17/2015 1:10 PM

lknol2

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I am assuming all the players would be in one database that just updates the pricing every few weeks, so I dont know how you could LOCK pricing in for theme leagues that take a long time to fill. What if the theme leagues that are not filled all have to reset when the new pricing happens? Or else they would have to use multiple databases to lock pricing based on certain dates.

11/17/2015 1:45 PM

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