Posted by zhawks on 1/3/2017 12:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/3/2017 12:13:00 PM (view original):
Isn't that what prestige is all about?

All things being equal, if D1 A+ puts in same effort as D1 B-, D1 A+ has the advantage?

Without opening the rabbit hole, sure you're somewhat right, but the best teams with the highest prestige also lose the most players early which also means they miss out on any recruiting interaction during the most important time (period 1). Based on what I've seen this has only made the EE scholarship filling much more difficult.

So we've kinda gone full circle. Success shouldn't be easy. Nor should continued success.

I've already said EE should probably declare halfway thru RS1. But I was unaware that a deep run would increase the possibility of EE. So declaring earlier would have unintended consequences with regards to how things work now. Kid declares halfway thru RS1 expecting a run and team gets upset. That would change the entire EE program. It's a dead topic. Or should be.

That's why I really didn't want to open up the rabbit hole, we all come down on slightly differing ideas on it but I think it really needs to be looked at from multiple angles and clearly needs involvement from not only WIS but also coaches. The structure is here to stay and I'm fine with that, but there can be tweaks to it for sure.

One easy tweak is making the baseline AP each school gets higher, there are other consequences that has though as well. I think an increase in baseline AP is probably needed across the board to increase battles a bit but I'm not really sure what the right direction is it's just a gut feeling. I think making the min AP each school gets equal to the max you can put on one target makes sense but until I saw it in practice (i.e. in a Beta) it would be difficult to know if that really was the right direction.

My biggest "gripe" right now is lack of contact in RS1. I don't know that increasing AP overall or limiting AP per recruit solves that problem or not(together they might). But, IMO, D1 schools can't ignore recruits in RS1 then get upset when they can't unlock/win a recruit in RS2. They had no interest in the guy until either 1) EE declaration 2) lost a battle in RS1. In that time, another USER has been dumping resources into said player. Perhaps all their resources because they're the only school chasing him. Having a D1 A+ jump in late and take the player is simply transferring the EE problem to another user.

I simply think the pendulum swung too far in the other direction. It used to be way too hard to beat high prestige schools. Now it seems too easy. There will be many opinions on what the power of prestige should be, but it seems imperceptible currently.

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/3/2017 12:42:00 PM (view original):
My biggest "gripe" right now is lack of contact in RS1. I don't know that increasing AP overall or limiting AP per recruit solves that problem or not(together they might). But, IMO, D1 schools can't ignore recruits in RS1 then get upset when they can't unlock/win a recruit in RS2. They had no interest in the guy until either 1) EE declaration 2) lost a battle in RS1. In that time, another USER has been dumping resources into said player. Perhaps all their resources because they're the only school chasing him. Having a D1 A+ jump in late and take the player is simply transferring the EE problem to another user.

I don't agree or disagree completely with you, however I will point out that MOST guys IN REAL LIFE would take D1 contact with 100 times more power than d2. Here that just isn't the case. Maybe they need to add another preference called "Division" and somehow have it say "Is ok with going down a division for PT" or something like I've said I don't know the exact right "fix", and really it's incredibly difficult to even offer up solutions when you don't know how difficult each would be to configure in HD.

But I think we all agree that there should be some way for all schools, but more specifically D1 schools to be able to recruit D1 recruits later and still have a reasonable shot. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense that no D2 team recruits D2 players right? Maybe we just need to do away with divisions on recruits all together, I've long held that we should get rid of positions as well (That's a complete other topic though).

But to re-point this out - These conversations, for the most part are due to passion for the game and want to make it better. I think that's one thing that the community could help WIS out with because they have long had very little forum interaction, is have a group of coaches that helps them hear the pain of the current game, not in a "you screwed this up" way but in a "lets make this better together" way.

Congratulations on your NT, tarv. You may have already realized this, but you will actually have NINE scholarship players, because the Sim no longer allows taking more than 3 walkons, and as session 2 completes, the Sim will autosign 4 DI players for you. You'll have no input in the players signed, and you won't be able to release any of those players to free up recruiting spots for next season's recruiting until AFTER recruiting is over. This has been my experience at Naismith Duke in one recruiting session so far, and it's actually noted in the 3.0 rules. Only way I've seen so far to avoid this is to sign Sr transfers, but those are rare now, and as 3.0 knowledge matures, I can imagine them becoming practically non-existent. Good luck this season and as you go forward.

Posted by zhawks on 1/3/2017 12:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/3/2017 12:42:00 PM (view original):
My biggest "gripe" right now is lack of contact in RS1. I don't know that increasing AP overall or limiting AP per recruit solves that problem or not(together they might). But, IMO, D1 schools can't ignore recruits in RS1 then get upset when they can't unlock/win a recruit in RS2. They had no interest in the guy until either 1) EE declaration 2) lost a battle in RS1. In that time, another USER has been dumping resources into said player. Perhaps all their resources because they're the only school chasing him. Having a D1 A+ jump in late and take the player is simply transferring the EE problem to another user.

I don't agree or disagree completely with you, however I will point out that MOST guys IN REAL LIFE would take D1 contact with 100 times more power than d2. Here that just isn't the case. Maybe they need to add another preference called "Division" and somehow have it say "Is ok with going down a division for PT" or something like I've said I don't know the exact right "fix", and really it's incredibly difficult to even offer up solutions when you don't know how difficult each would be to configure in HD.

But I think we all agree that there should be some way for all schools, but more specifically D1 schools to be able to recruit D1 recruits later and still have a reasonable shot. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense that no D2 team recruits D2 players right? Maybe we just need to do away with divisions on recruits all together, I've long held that we should get rid of positions as well (That's a complete other topic though).

Yeah, but as I pointed out in an unresponded to thread, we don't want REAL LIFE. Contact begins early and is often. In this game, we want to wait contact 2nd/3rd/etc choices until we absolutely have to. Kentucky isn't ignoring a player until a week before signing day and saying "Hey, I know we have spoken but we had a spot open up. Wanna be a Wildcat?"

It's not happening but I suggested a free "target" period. Maybe D1 puts a "target" on 100 players before recruiting session 1 starts. D2 can target 75, D3 50. Once you hit L2 scouting, you can see if a higher division has a guy on their radar. If they do, you know they can snatch him from you during RS2. If they don't, you're free to dump resources into them and out maybe out recruit them before they open up scholarship offers.

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/3/2017 12:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zhawks on 1/3/2017 12:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/3/2017 12:42:00 PM (view original):
My biggest "gripe" right now is lack of contact in RS1. I don't know that increasing AP overall or limiting AP per recruit solves that problem or not(together they might). But, IMO, D1 schools can't ignore recruits in RS1 then get upset when they can't unlock/win a recruit in RS2. They had no interest in the guy until either 1) EE declaration 2) lost a battle in RS1. In that time, another USER has been dumping resources into said player. Perhaps all their resources because they're the only school chasing him. Having a D1 A+ jump in late and take the player is simply transferring the EE problem to another user.

I don't agree or disagree completely with you, however I will point out that MOST guys IN REAL LIFE would take D1 contact with 100 times more power than d2. Here that just isn't the case. Maybe they need to add another preference called "Division" and somehow have it say "Is ok with going down a division for PT" or something like I've said I don't know the exact right "fix", and really it's incredibly difficult to even offer up solutions when you don't know how difficult each would be to configure in HD.

But I think we all agree that there should be some way for all schools, but more specifically D1 schools to be able to recruit D1 recruits later and still have a reasonable shot. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense that no D2 team recruits D2 players right? Maybe we just need to do away with divisions on recruits all together, I've long held that we should get rid of positions as well (That's a complete other topic though).

Yeah, but as I pointed out in an unresponded to thread, we don't want REAL LIFE. Contact begins early and is often. In this game, we want to wait contact 2nd/3rd/etc choices until we absolutely have to. Kentucky isn't ignoring a player until a week before signing day and saying "Hey, I know we have spoken but we had a spot open up. Wanna be a Wildcat?"

It's not happening but I suggested a free "target" period. Maybe D1 puts a "target" on 100 players before recruiting session 1 starts. D2 can target 75, D3 50. Once you hit L2 scouting, you can see if a higher division has a guy on their radar. If they do, you know they can snatch him from you during RS2. If they don't, you're free to dump resources into them and out maybe out recruit them before they open up scholarship offers.

I agree there are lots of differing ideas of how this could work. I do enjoy the in season recruiting I just dislike the abnormal difference between the two periods. There's a middle ground that all of us, even SPUD can agree on.

Posted by zhawks on 1/3/2017 12:52:00 PM (view original):
But to re-point this out - These conversations, for the most part are due to passion for the game and want to make it better. I think that's one thing that the community could help WIS out with because they have long had very little forum interaction, is have a group of coaches that helps them hear the pain of the current game, not in a "you screwed this up" way but in a "lets make this better together" way.

Doesn't that already happen in the forums? Do you imagine there are constructive ideas being withheld from the forums for some reason? Do you imagine WIS guys don't read the forums or tickets? I don't imagine either of those things.

Points/ideas get buried quickly in these forums.

That's debatable.

My first reading of this forum was nothing but whining/crying about 3.0. Nothing constructive could be had.
The next level was insult-based. Either at me for offering a differing opinion or at you because, as best I can tell, you're you.
Now we're moving back to whining about some aspect of 3.0.

If I'm WifS, I'm not reading this drivel.

A focus group, of 20+ WIDELY VARIED users would be far more effective. That way, if the discussion becomes pointless, WifS rep can say "Back on topic, guys" with some authority. If it's a daily ******* match, start replacing people.

Posted by CoachSpud on 1/3/2017 1:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zhawks on 1/3/2017 12:52:00 PM (view original):
But to re-point this out - These conversations, for the most part are due to passion for the game and want to make it better. I think that's one thing that the community could help WIS out with because they have long had very little forum interaction, is have a group of coaches that helps them hear the pain of the current game, not in a "you screwed this up" way but in a "lets make this better together" way.

Doesn't that already happen in the forums? Do you imagine there are constructive ideas being withheld from the forums for some reason? Do you imagine WIS guys don't read the forums or tickets? I don't imagine either of those things.

They really don't read the forums, it's been an ongoing struggle since the days of Admin. Additionally, the forums are pretty vicious here in regards to hate towards wis and their developers so I can understand why one wouldn't want to.

Posted by CoachSpud on 1/3/2017 1:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/3/2017 1:16:00 PM (view original):
Points/ideas get buried quickly in these forums.

Yup. But that's the nature of the widest possible discussion and unmoderated forums. And the widest possible discussion is still preferable.

So.. you contradict yourself? shocking!

That's why I think it would be best for a group to collate and work to facilitate the discussion so things aren't lost and the ideas aren't wild and outlandish.

This isn't a unique idea by any means but one that I think could benefit all involved, never will everyone agree with everyone else but it doesn't mean we can't all work together to further all of our enjoyment in the game.