Posted by laramiebob on 10/12/2021 8:42:00 AM (view original):
This stuff ALL happened over 10 YEARS ago!!

How many of you folks want to be held to such a standard (job loss!) over everything you've spouted 10 - 12 years ago??
This reeks of cancel culture.................which is getting way way out of control!!

That's not true, though. The e-mails in question spanned a period of 7-8 years and cover as recently as 2018. During none of the years in question could Gruden be considered a kid, or even a young man. It's a period that establishes a clear pattern of thought and behavior that seems unlikely to have changed since.

I haven't read all of the available material, even, much less what might be kept from the public. My reading from what I have seen is that Gruden is definitely insensitive. Based on the e-mails and all the interviews with people who have worked with him, I'm not convinced he's any more racist than the average white American. But he clearly is misogynistic and homophobic. As others have pointed out, because of his prominent public role he's going to be held to a higher standard than people in other jobs. The NFL has a conduct policy. Think how many Raiders fans are women. How are they expected to feel if the team keeps him? The team can't afford that PR. He had to go.

Posted by lostnfound74 on 10/12/2021 12:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 10/12/2021 8:42:00 AM (view original):
This stuff ALL happened over 10 YEARS ago!!

How many of you folks want to be held to such a standard (job loss!) over everything you've spouted 10 - 12 years ago??
This reeks of cancel culture.................which is getting way way out of control!!

Whether or not he is a jerk, I agree. Dig up old dirt and use it to bully someone..

Every human being who can talk has at least said something totally assinine, at least once in their lives.. and this includes you and me. In my case, more than once. The world has gone mad.. and I am so sick of the woke.. they have no life, and they hate that you have one.. Losers

As for women referees.. my only Q is could they handle it? It is a huge physical load. I think men do it better.. so now the lefties and pol corr crowd can label me a hate mongering mysogonist (sp)

Utter nonsense.. but it is what they seek to do. i.e. Label everyone except their self righteous holier than thou selves. They will call you either a racist, a bigot or anything followed by 'phobic' God actually laughs at them. I don't, but they make me happy for the barf bag

and I thought door to door salesmen were pushy.. Compared to this gang?? Ha!

Your post is quite telling. I don't feel the need to defend Gruden by saying "everyone has done something stupid" because I haven't sent emails containing a bunch of racist, misogynistic, homophobic bullshit. Maybe you and laramiebob have.

Of course, 10 years ago I was a dumbass teenager. I actually WAS a different person. If you're a grown adult, you don't get to excuse your actions that way.

Posted by dahsdebater on 10/12/2021 1:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 10/12/2021 8:42:00 AM (view original):
This stuff ALL happened over 10 YEARS ago!!

How many of you folks want to be held to such a standard (job loss!) over everything you've spouted 10 - 12 years ago??
This reeks of cancel culture.................which is getting way way out of control!!

That's not true, though. The e-mails in question spanned a period of 7-8 years and cover as recently as 2018. During none of the years in question could Gruden be considered a kid, or even a young man. It's a period that establishes a clear pattern of thought and behavior that seems unlikely to have changed since.

I haven't read all of the available material, even, much less what might be kept from the public. My reading from what I have seen is that Gruden is definitely insensitive. Based on the e-mails and all the interviews with people who have worked with him, I'm not convinced he's any more racist than the average white American. But he clearly is misogynistic and homophobic. As others have pointed out, because of his prominent public role he's going to be held to a higher standard than people in other jobs. The NFL has a conduct policy. Think how many Raiders fans are women. How are they expected to feel if the team keeps him? The team can't afford that PR. He had to go.

He literally has a gay player on his team. How the **** could he continue to be employed? The racist stuff wasn't the worst of the emails.

Plus, he was a bad coach. It's not worth it to keep him.

I haven't seen any of the emails. What does it really mean that he has a gay player on his team?

Apparently the player is good enough for him to "ignore" that reality..........or could his words of the past not reflect his present??

His ability to coach has nothing to do with this.
I suspect very few folks weren't aware that Gruden was "insensitive" and beyond.......... arrogant comes to mind.
There are topless photos of women on this site. The question therein would be WHERE did the photos come from and who and how did he get them on his phone!

But I'm done defending him.
I don't usually spend a minute worrying about rich guys doing or saying dumb ****.

But I wonder which of you is clean enough for today.

Maybe before defending Gruden you should read what he actually said, come back, and then see if you still want to defend him.

Posted by tangplay on 10/12/2021 2:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by lostnfound74 on 10/12/2021 12:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 10/12/2021 8:42:00 AM (view original):
This stuff ALL happened over 10 YEARS ago!!

How many of you folks want to be held to such a standard (job loss!) over everything you've spouted 10 - 12 years ago??
This reeks of cancel culture.................which is getting way way out of control!!

Whether or not he is a jerk, I agree. Dig up old dirt and use it to bully someone..

Every human being who can talk has at least said something totally assinine, at least once in their lives.. and this includes you and me. In my case, more than once. The world has gone mad.. and I am so sick of the woke.. they have no life, and they hate that you have one.. Losers

As for women referees.. my only Q is could they handle it? It is a huge physical load. I think men do it better.. so now the lefties and pol corr crowd can label me a hate mongering mysogonist (sp)

Utter nonsense.. but it is what they seek to do. i.e. Label everyone except their self righteous holier than thou selves. They will call you either a racist, a bigot or anything followed by 'phobic' God actually laughs at them. I don't, but they make me happy for the barf bag

and I thought door to door salesmen were pushy.. Compared to this gang?? Ha!

Your post is quite telling. I don't feel the need to defend Gruden by saying "everyone has done something stupid" because I haven't sent emails containing a bunch of racist, misogynistic, homophobic bullshit. Maybe you and laramiebob have.

Of course, 10 years ago I was a dumbass teenager. I actually WAS a different person. If you're a grown adult, you don't get to excuse your actions that way.

This the kind of post I resent. Starting off with - your post is quite telling. And suggesting that others you disagree with have sent similar posts.

You should stop showing such personal enmity towards people who do not agree with you and begin to think in a more holistic manner.

If you grasp it you can ruminate upon it.

Posted by laramiebob on 10/12/2021 2:47:00 PM (view original):
I haven't seen any of the emails. What does it really mean that he has a gay player on his team?

Apparently the player is good enough for him to "ignore" that reality..........or could his words of the past not reflect his present??

His ability to coach has nothing to do with this.
I suspect very few folks weren't aware that Gruden was "insensitive" and beyond.......... arrogant comes to mind.
There are topless photos of women on this site. The question therein would be WHERE did the photos come from and who and how did he get them on his phone!

But I'm done defending him.
I don't usually spend a minute worrying about rich guys doing or saying dumb ****.

But I wonder which of you is clean enough for today.

The issue isn’t about his accomplishment or ability to coach but standard of behavior for individuals who occupy a certain level in society and the responsibility and accountability that they accept when they take on my by choice such leadership roles.
That is by far the main issue.
A police officer or clergy or public official or standard bearer of a billion dollar company does and will have to meet certain expectations or expect the consequences.

As for coaching it is unlikely that all of his players will be 100% as coachable as before.

And the same issue applies to the fans.

Posted by kermit on 10/12/2021 1:42:00 PM (view original):
I had assumed all his e-mails would be variations of "Let me tell you about THIS GUY!!!!"

Lol

Dino =Jetson

I just want to take a moment to tell Tang I appreciate him (?) defending my opinion in this thread. Thank you Tang. I'm proud to be on your side.

-Core
They/Them

Posted by coreander on 10/12/2021 5:07:00 PM (view original):
I just want to take a moment to tell Tang I appreciate him (?) defending my opinion in this thread. Thank you Tang. I'm proud to be on your side.

-Core
They/Them

Adolf Hitler would probably not want Jon Gruden fired. If you don't think Gruden should have resigned, you are on the same side as Hitler.

Posted by tangplay on 10/12/2021 7:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by coreander on 10/12/2021 5:07:00 PM (view original):
I just want to take a moment to tell Tang I appreciate him (?) defending my opinion in this thread. Thank you Tang. I'm proud to be on your side.

-Core
They/Them

Adolf Hitler would probably not want Jon Gruden fired. If you don't think Gruden should have resigned, you are on the same side as Hitler.

I hope that was return of “parody” but probably not.
Knowing you I believe you actually meant it.

I look for common ground I don’t rise above other people. If I really vehemently disagree with something like trump politics I rise above that which another is attached to but not the person.


Jetson, were you just kidding when you said this?

Jetson = Dino