Posted by dahsdebater on 9/19/2016 1:29:00 PM (view original):
Tec like Chris. Chris hit ball hard.

He strikes out too much. Oh, sorry. Strikeouts are just another kind of out.

He doesn't walk enough. He needs to walk more, like Edgar did. Man, that guy could walk.

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/19/2016 1:29:00 PM (view original):
Tec like Chris. Chris hit ball hard.

How else would you define power?

Perhaps the issue isn't with power itself, but your flawed definition of it. No one is saying Davis is an elite hitter, but there's a reason why managers ranked Trumbo and Davis one-two in the AL for best "POWER" tool this season. Power = strength and how much of that strength you can put into a baseball. Not how many doubles and triples you hit.

Power is hitting the ball hard. Which can be measured by exit speed.

Hey, what about average home run distance as a measure of power?

So when the Trumbos and Stantons hit 500-ft bombs, those count more (for power) than a 330-ft wall scraper.

You played dahs, right?

If you absolutely stung pitches in your first 3 AB but didn't get a hit, did you say "****. I gotta do something different in my next AB"?

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/19/2016 1:40:00 PM (view original):
You played dahs, right?

If you absolutely stung pitches in your first 3 AB but didn't get a hit, did you say "****. I gotta do something different in my next AB"?

He wasn't a hitter. He used to take the mound, cold, and mow them all down.

Posted by toddcommish on 9/19/2016 11:44:00 AM (view original):
I don't need stats (advanced or otherwise) to tell me whether a guy is a "power hitter".

I watch the games.

+1

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/19/2016 1:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 9/19/2016 12:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/19/2016 12:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/19/2016 10:21:00 AM (view original):
BL's head is gonna explode. And I'll agree with him in advance. RBI is a terrible way to judge power. Or pretty much anything other than getting a hit when a runner is on base.

I didn't say you judge power by RBI. I would base it on the probability of amassing RBI in any given situation. That scales reasonably well with SLG.

A line drive double into the gap with the bases empty (probability of amassing 0 RBI) is just as much power as the exact same line drive double into the gap with the bases empty (probability of amassing 3 RBI).

Do you want the cymbal monkey too?

Surprise surprise, you either ignored what I said or just aren't capable of understanding it. We're using SLG as the measuring stick here, not RBI. The guy who hits more doubles will, over a large sample size, tend to drive in more runners than the guy who hits fewer. Sometimes there will be runners on first and 2nd who would not score with singles but will score with doubles. So the guy amassing more XBH will drive in more runs. But there will also be runners on 2nd and 3rd who will score when any hit occurs. So a guy who gets more hits will also drive in more runs than a guy who doesn't amass hits. And a guy who hits HRs will obviously drive in extra runs. All of these things are reflected in SLG. Which is why SLG works well enough for me as a measure of power.

Again, even though you guys have continued to refer to it in responses to me in spite of the fact that I already explicitly stated that I don't care about it - I don't care how hard a guy hits the ball. I care about the end result of said contact. 2014 Chris Davis still hit the ball hard. He just didn't hit it very often. Sure, he fit the "hit the ball hard definition of power." So what? He was a hole in the lineup. He slugged .404. Nothing to write home about. You can have your definition of power in which a guy like that is still a power hitter. I'll stick with my baseball-relevant definition in which he's basically a bum.

I get what you are saying, but we aren't talking about RBI or efficiency or anything like that. We were talking about how to measure power. And no one was necessarily saying SLG was useless. I was saying that SLG isn't always the best indicator of power. I play a lot of fantasy baseball. I'm pretty decent at it. And I really - don't - look at SLG to determine how a player will do next year. Because SLG only tells you the results. Yes, high SLG usually says that a player can hit HRs. HRs is the most important stat on the offensive end of rotisserie. But you need to know - why - SLG is where it is at. And for that you need peripherals. Hard Hit %. How hard you hit the ball. Fly Ball %. How much lift you get. All that in concert with each other gives you a pretty good idea about how much power a guy has.

Posted by tecwrg on 9/19/2016 11:34:00 AM (view original):
There truly is no depth to BL's stupidity.

Can't we get a "poor, stupid BL'?

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/19/2016 1:40:00 PM (view original):
You played dahs, right?

If you absolutely stung pitches in your first 3 AB but didn't get a hit, did you say "****. I gotta do something different in my next AB"?

If I keep hitting the ball on the screws, I'm gonna get XBH at some point.

This isn't a very realistic scenario, though. I don't think I've hit the ball hard 3 times in one game since I was about 10...

Posted by sjpoker on 9/19/2016 2:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 9/19/2016 11:34:00 AM (view original):
There truly is no depth to BL's stupidity.

Can't we get a "poor, stupid BL'?

Henceforth, we shall refer to him as PSBL.

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/19/2016 3:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/19/2016 1:40:00 PM (view original):
You played dahs, right?

If you absolutely stung pitches in your first 3 AB but didn't get a hit, did you say "****. I gotta do something different in my next AB"?

If I keep hitting the ball on the screws, I'm gonna get XBH at some point.

This isn't a very realistic scenario, though. I don't think I've hit the ball hard 3 times in one game since I was about 10...

So you're not doing anything different despite being hitless?

Can I use this as Exhibit A on why exit speed is a far better judge of power than SLG or RBI or HR/AB or whatever the **** else people have said?

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/19/2016 12:54:00 PM (view original):
As tec said, RBI is largely a product of opportunity. Player A has 4 wall-denting doubles in a game and 0 RBI because all came with the bases empty. Player B got two RBI on a Texas Leaguer with the bases loaded. He also hit three weak dribblers.

Again, a 380 ft flyball can be a deep fly out or clear the fence by 60 feet. But both may have left the bat at 101 MPH. That's pretty strong regardless of the end result.

The end result of an AB doesn't tell the full story when discussing power.

I pretty much completely agree with this, with a couple additional points.

I think there's two different ways to look at power. You can look at it Mike's way, or what I'd call scouted power. Velocity, distance, mechanics, backspin, etc that indicate a hitter is capable of producing significant value with the bat.

Then there's results power. Actually hitting for extra bases. Probably best measured by things like SLG, HR, Doubles, wRC+, etc.

I'd add that exit velocity doesn't always tell the full story. Zach Britton allows a relatively high exit velocity, but since most of the balls are driven directly into the ground, no one considers the hitters' results "powerful."

A well-struck grounder is still more likely to find a hole than a weak one.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/19/2016 5:11:00 PM (view original):
A well-struck grounder is still more likely to find a hole than a weak one.

Absolutely. There's a direct correlation between exit velocity and the odds that the BIP becomes a hit.