2015 baseball HOF ballot. Topic

MikeT23
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Posted by burnsy483 on 2/10/2014 1:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/10/2014 1:11:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/9/2014 11:13:00 PM (view original):
You don't think I'm amused by two idiots arguing that Martinez doesn't belong in the hall of fame, not because he added very little value on defense and not because he didn't have huge power numbers, but because his high OBP included a 14% walk rate?

It's hilarious.
Seems you still don't understand my argument for no EM in the HOF.  I thought I spelled it out very clearly about 10 pages ago.   The fact that he walked 729 times with runners on so a Russ Davis could hit doesn't help his case. 
Well thats dumb.
Yeah, it is pretty dumb to prefer to have Edgar Martinez swinging at pitches instead of Russ Davis.    Because, you know, they're comparable players.
2/10/2014 1:21 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/10/2014 1:11:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/9/2014 11:13:00 PM (view original):
You don't think I'm amused by two idiots arguing that Martinez doesn't belong in the hall of fame, not because he added very little value on defense and not because he didn't have huge power numbers, but because his high OBP included a 14% walk rate?

It's hilarious.
Seems you still don't understand my argument for no EM in the HOF.  I thought I spelled it out very clearly about 10 pages ago.   The fact that he walked 729 times with runners on so a Russ Davis could hit doesn't help his case. 
Why doesn't that help his case?

If Martinez is up with a guy on first and no one out in the second inning of a scoreless game, doesn't a walk improve his team's chances of scoring one or more runs?

(Just a heads up, the answer to that question is yes)
2/10/2014 1:21 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by bad_luck on 2/10/2014 1:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/10/2014 1:11:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/9/2014 11:13:00 PM (view original):
You don't think I'm amused by two idiots arguing that Martinez doesn't belong in the hall of fame, not because he added very little value on defense and not because he didn't have huge power numbers, but because his high OBP included a 14% walk rate?

It's hilarious.
Seems you still don't understand my argument for no EM in the HOF.  I thought I spelled it out very clearly about 10 pages ago.   The fact that he walked 729 times with runners on so a Russ Davis could hit doesn't help his case. 
Why doesn't that help his case?

If Martinez is up with a guy on first and no one out in the second inning of a scoreless game, doesn't a walk improve his team's chances of scoring one or more runs?

(Just a heads up, the answer to that question is yes)
Is it your contention that all 729 of those walks moved a runner into scoring position?
2/10/2014 1:22 PM
bad_luck
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No. My contention is that walks are a good thing.
2/10/2014 1:26 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by bad_luck on 2/10/2014 1:26:00 PM (view original):
No. My contention is that walks are a good thing.
They're a very good thing, actually.
2/10/2014 1:28 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/10/2014 1:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/10/2014 1:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/10/2014 1:11:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/9/2014 11:13:00 PM (view original):
You don't think I'm amused by two idiots arguing that Martinez doesn't belong in the hall of fame, not because he added very little value on defense and not because he didn't have huge power numbers, but because his high OBP included a 14% walk rate?

It's hilarious.
Seems you still don't understand my argument for no EM in the HOF.  I thought I spelled it out very clearly about 10 pages ago.   The fact that he walked 729 times with runners on so a Russ Davis could hit doesn't help his case. 
Well thats dumb.
Yeah, it is pretty dumb to prefer to have Edgar Martinez swinging at pitches instead of Russ Davis.    Because, you know, they're comparable players.
I'd prefer EM on base with Russ Davis hitting than nobody on base with EM hitting.  Or 2 guys on base with Davis hitting instead of 1 guy on base with EM hitting.
2/10/2014 1:29 PM
MikeT23
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Why does EM always have to make an out when he doesn't walk in your scenarios?  Couldn't he hit?
2/10/2014 1:32 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/10/2014 1:32:00 PM (view original):
Why does EM always have to make an out when he doesn't walk in your scenarios?  Couldn't he hit?
Sure.

All things equal, I'd take a 100% chance of a walk over a 30% chance of a hit.

Especially when the next guy up also has a 25% chance of getting a hit.
2/10/2014 1:34 PM
MikeT23
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The guys behind EM weren't very adept at scoring him.   27.5% of the time.    Didn't find anyone else less than 30.
2/10/2014 1:49 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/10/2014 1:49:00 PM (view original):
The guys behind EM weren't very adept at scoring him.   27.5% of the time.    Didn't find anyone else less than 30.
So what? Martinez isn't clairvoyant. He doesn't know ahead of time if this will be one if the 27% or one of the 73%. Short of a home run, all he can do is get on base and hope for the best. Getting on base, with a hit or a walk, helps the team.
2/10/2014 1:54 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/10/2014 1:49:00 PM (view original):
The guys behind EM weren't very adept at scoring him.   27.5% of the time.    Didn't find anyone else less than 30.
He scores 27.5% of the time he's on base? How many times does he score when he's not on base?

Also, where are you finding these numbers?
2/10/2014 1:59 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by burnsy483 on 2/10/2014 12:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/10/2014 12:37:00 PM (view original):
If Martinez was walked intentionally in that situation, are you thinking "good move?"
Let me piggyback on this.  Martinez batted .356 that year.  The guy on deck did not start, pinch ran earlier and batted .232 in 142 atbats in the regular season.  Why wasn't Edgar intentionally walked?
Tying run on third.  Winning run on first.

Conventional baseball wisdom says you don't intentionally move the winning run into scoring position.

That's why you don't intentionall walk him.
2/10/2014 2:11 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by bad_luck on 2/10/2014 1:26:00 PM (view original):
No. My contention is that walks are a good thing.
Unless you're in a situation when you need a hit, and the guy on deck is less proficient at producing them.
2/10/2014 2:13 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by tecwrg on 2/10/2014 2:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/10/2014 1:26:00 PM (view original):
No. My contention is that walks are a good thing.
Unless you're in a situation when you need a hit, and the guy on deck is less proficient at producing them.
Ok. What does that have to do with Martinez? All great hitters draw a good percentage of walks.
2/10/2014 2:15 PM
tecwrg
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Are they drawing walks because they are not being given good pitches to hit, or are they drawing walks because they are working the counts, taking strikes in the zone on their hopeful way to ball four?
2/10/2014 2:19 PM
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