Deliberately throwing games to make money Topic

JohnGPF
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Quote: Originally Posted By crazystengel on 12/21/2007If the Red Sox call up a minor league scrub to start a meaningless game against the Royals, so that they can save Beckett for the Yankees, are they cheating? And if they sit Manny and Ortiz against the Royals, because they're tired and they want them as rested as possible against the Yankees, is that cheating too? Are the Red Sox deliberately throwing the game to the Royals?
...of course not...but the fatigue strategy isn't about "resting" players...it's about exploiting the flaws in the Usage/Salary controls the SIM has in place to ensure fair competition...
12/21/2007 12:52 PM
hatchetman
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so defensive
12/21/2007 1:47 PM
firehose
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Everyone seems to be concentrating on PA's...I think it's the really cheap, comparatively, super IP's that make the strategy work. Good pitching will defeat good hitting. The platoon teams win because of the value/performance ratio of the 288 IP Maddux; J.R. Richard; Fred Toney: 118 IP Pedro; the known super short IP guys...these guys are so underpriced for the performance they give it is silly...and they are what make the system work, not any combination of hitters.
12/21/2007 2:18 PM
firehose
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I truly am out of this debate after this post, but as a final shot:

Is it that you folks haven't played against these teams? I have with my post-recent update teams, that stress speed and really good 1B/100AB vs. 1B/100# and triples...they usually end up with around 90 wins, plenty of SB's and around a .300 team avg..

Against these fatigue teams' A squads I'm lucky to get a .200 team avg out of these guys....all the time. My pitching usually includes a '02 Pedro, and a couple of other SP's that are competitive against any other team. The pen is always serviceable and should be competitive against anyone...but the problem is you just can't hit against these fatigue teams (the ones that are successful)...and some of you know that almost all of my teams are filled with a bunch of pain in the neck slappy type hitters (that really can hit).


It is not the PA's, it is the pitching. It is just a handfull of pitchers, at that. And in my opinion, if WIS tries again to address the real situation caused by a few player years by making changes that affect ALL player years, they've been partaking of way too much skunky foreign beer and not enough skanky foreign women.

Happy Holidays, I really enjoy sharing the site with you all.

EDIT: griz, you're not a cheater, you are an excellent tactician. I've seen you manage about half a dozen of these teams, and it obviously takes skill and time.
12/21/2007 2:35 PM
hvbbl
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I think the way the regular season sets up is fine. It takes a lot of skill/patience to make the playoffs using a fatigue strategy. It is once the playoffs & TOC begin that I have a problem. Admin has to come up with a way to make pitchers and hitters fatigue at a much, much higher rate in the playoffs. I also would like to see a minimum starts floor where the SIM won't let you use a pitcher to start a game that has less than X# of starts in real life. Combine this with raising the minimum Pitch Count setting for SP from 40 to 60 and that might help. Oh, and Grizzly is not cheating.
12/21/2007 3:25 PM
just4me
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Grizzly is also not the only one that is doing this. So, unless you're going to compliment him on how well he has manged such teams and how he has almost made fatigue teams an art form, then I think it is unfair to single him out.
12/21/2007 3:30 PM
hvbbl
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I know you do it too but I felt that people were bashing Grizzly and I just can't see it as cheating.
12/21/2007 3:38 PM
toddcommish
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Any SF Giants fan will remember when Dusty Baker used to wheel out a "Sunday" lineup with almost all second-teamers. Barry Bonds would sit, Benito Santiago would sit, JT Snow, Rich Aurilia, and anyone over the age of 29 would "rest". The Giants would lose 10-3 most times, but the oldsters would get a day's rest (two if Monday was an off day).
12/21/2007 3:51 PM
just4me
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12/21/2007 5:00 PM
sheller
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Quote: Originally Posted By grizzly_one on 12/21/2007Price PA accordingly. And don't let fatigued guys play many PA over their limit. Less effective is meaningless. When guys get say 20% over their pace, that's when they should be knocked out of games


Speaking of slippery slopes...

That sounds fine for open leagues, theme leagues, etc. It would cause more problems than already exist for those in single-season progressives, especially those that are simming years in which there are only 24 teams in the majors and the sim league makes you play players at rated positions. I'm in one now that's simming 1989, using the old 17% overage system, and have three infielders that have been playing at 92-95% most of the season.
12/21/2007 5:12 PM
JohnGPF
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Quote: Originally Posted By grizzly_one on 12/21/2007I'm not disagreeing with the idea that the system needs to be changed to reflect the price of PA better just as well as the over use of players PA. But to rest all your players at one time because your team staring nine is full of guys that can only play 125 games is not cheating. Yes your not puting your best team out there for that game, but it's done for the greater good of your team
...being able to win in a champs league with less than 3500 PA for all your real life position players by "resting" them is not cheating, but it's a good a sign as any that the system is FUBAR...
12/21/2007 6:05 PM
cpdpoet
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my two cents..........
Someone once likened the type of philosophy in this thread to "gaming strategy" vs "baseball strategy".
The baseball guys get ****** that the gaming guys find these loopholes and exploit them, then it goes back and forth..
I just choose to stay with the baseball guys, but I don't bash the gamers, they're paying their $12.95 too.
If WIS knows about it and let's it go on, well.
12/21/2007 7:52 PM
JohnGPF
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...i get ****** at the loopholes...game players play games the way the games are made...
12/21/2007 10:26 PM
rbow923
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I don't like fatigue teams, but do those complaning about them ever rest their players for the playoffs? same idea, you're deliberately throwing games or not giving yourself a good chance to win them in exchange for better playoff chances. Is resting for the playoffs cheating? fatigue team is a more aggressive and more annoying form of the same idea.
12/22/2007 12:03 AM
ArlenWilliam
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Quote: Originally posted by JohnGPF on 12/21/2007D. Froglike Indifference to Human Affairs
What makes you think frogs don't care about you, John?

12/22/2007 6:28 AM
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