Pete Rose?

Pete Rose is ineligible.

zubinsum, I think I'd largely agree with both lists...and part of what's interesting about the "in but not deserving" is how many of them were put there 30+ years ago.  The idea that the HOF is getting watered down, or is less exclusive than it used to be, is pretty much unsupported by evidence in my opinion.  I think the HOF voters - especially the writers - are much more restrictive than they used to be.  I'm not sure if that's good or bad on balance - that's a separate question entirely.

Contrarian:
Thanks for the kind words.  I pretty much agree with everything you wrote.  The Hall of Fame was watered down with some dubious Veteran Committee picks in the 70s and 80s.  However, recently the BBWAA has gotten way too picky.  Part of that is simply that no one is quite surehow to evaluate steroid era power hitters, but that doesn't explain why Alan Trammell has had to wait for so long.  You could argue that there are some other players that don't belong but there but there are often non-statistical rationales behind their induction. e.g Rick Ferrell (games caught), Ray Schalk (games caught, character on the Black Sox), Bill Mazeroski (defense), Bruce Sutter (split finger fastball), Red Schoendienst (time as a coach and manager).  I'm not saying I completely agree with these picks, but I think they are much more defensible than many stat-heads realize.

I'd probably add the Evanses (Dwight & Darrell) to the list.

Once we clear the legendary pitchers who recently retired, I'm predicting that the Hall voters are going to have a MAJOR Kevin Brown problem.

He only got a 2.1% on this year's ballot.   I think that gets him taken off.  

I wonder about him and steroids as well....he was a more or less average pitcher until 1996 and then became dominant for 5 years.   He was 31 then.  Those #'s are a little sketchy if you ask me.   I mean you can't prove it but how many guys strike out TWICE as many people at 35 then 25.  

You're not the only one who's wondered about Brown:

www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-plaschkela14dec14,1,2953941,full.column

Kevin Brown wasn't just a curmudgeon, he was a drug cheat.

[...]

By the time Gagne and Brown were at their Dodgers peak in the 2003 season, it was obvious to me that both players were probably on steroids.

It was obvious to the Dodgers management that both players were probably on steroids.

We would even talk about it while watching their bulging, straining bodies from the dugout during batting practice.

But the players would admit nothing, so there was nothing I could write.

Management could not subject them to testing, so there was nothing they could do.

[...]

You can no longer believe Brown's 2.39 earned-run average in 2003. More memorable will be the temper tantrums that were, perhaps, 'roid rage.

I know he's off the ballot.  That's why it's going to be a problem.  There will be pitchers getting lots of votes who were clearly inferior to Kevin Brown.  That doesn't mean Brown should be in... but it's going to be a problem, similar to a voter choosing Morris but not Blyleven.  Blyleven being obviously better than Morris doesn't mean that he should be in (or Morris should be out), but that you can't put Morris in before Bly.

I believe Brown's 2.39 ERA in 2003, btw.  I'm pretty sure it happened.  And that's the point.  These players actually did all these things in major league baseball games.  You can penalize all the guys you "know" "cheated", but in the process you're going to indict some guys who were really probably clean (see: Bagwell, Jeff) and you're definitely going to put in PED guys who just got away with it.  That's already happened, almost certainly.

In the end, I think you just have to put in the best players and let the rest of this mess sort itself out over time.  I don't think that one can be intellectually honest and try to draw bright lines here...

And seriously, crazy, I like you.  But Bill Plaschke?

I was gonna say the same thing llama ... Plaschke being the writer does lower the quality of the article.

Posted by llamanunts on 2/7/2011 11:21:00 AM (view original):
I know he's off the ballot.  That's why it's going to be a problem.  There will be pitchers getting lots of votes who were clearly inferior to Kevin Brown.  That doesn't mean Brown should be in... but it's going to be a problem, similar to a voter choosing Morris but not Blyleven.  Blyleven being obviously better than Morris doesn't mean that he should be in (or Morris should be out), but that you can't put Morris in before Bly.

I believe Brown's 2.39 ERA in 2003, btw.  I'm pretty sure it happened.  And that's the point.  These players actually did all these things in major league baseball games.  You can penalize all the guys you "know" "cheated", but in the process you're going to indict some guys who were really probably clean (see: Bagwell, Jeff) and you're definitely going to put in PED guys who just got away with it.  That's already happened, almost certainly.

In the end, I think you just have to put in the best players and let the rest of this mess sort itself out over time.  I don't think that one can be intellectually honest and try to draw bright lines here...

Who do you think will get "a lot of votes" that will be "clearly inferior"  to Brown?

I just don't see how Kevin Brown is going to start a firestorm.

Frankly, I don't know who Bill Plaschke is (it sounds like a name you'd find in Mad Magazine).  I got the article from a Google search, but I figured since it was the LA Times it was fairly legit.  Does he suck?  

Pettitte, for one, is going to get significant support.  Clearly inferior to Brown, and as Posnanski (the anti-Plaschke) recently pointed out, similar to Chuck Finley.  Jack Morris has a Kevin Brown problem.  Brown was a better pitcher than Glavine, but Glavine pitched a lot more.

I don't think it'll be a firestorm, per se, but it's going to be a problem.

Oh, Plaschke.  Yeah, he's like a dumber Lupica.  He's an older, wistful-but-still-bitter Jay Mariotti.  (Let's see, that's LA, NY, CHI... I don't know the awful Canadian sportswriters.  ;) )

He's just one of those willfully, aggressively ignorant types.  I'm not like that - I'm just kind of a jerk.