"Best" D3 Players thread Topic

I didn't mean to say Hendricks wasn't a better player of course if he would be a better D2 player he is above and beyond a better D3 Player. And yes it hard to look at stats or even just ratings without knowing the rest of the team and opponents. Just pointing out that while his rating are good he developed a lot the last two seasons. Where as a lot of other players where better career players and probably help their teams as much if not more.
Just kinda hard to say this guy is better than any other guy in a vacuum. tarvolon I believe had 2 NT during this guy's career so that to me has a lot more to do with it than anything, I didn't realize it till I looked.
3/23/2016 10:58 PM
Posted by the0nlyis on 3/23/2016 10:47:00 PM (view original):
Some more guys to look at:

Pure offensive machine psmith17 in tark

Another insane offense with strong defense from tark by oldave

I found the more efficient Zeyer by duece_duece in tark as well

Here's a legit big man haven't seen any elite big man posted here by TJ in wooden

Another insane Maryville player by tarvolon in Crum

The A- FT in the FB/Press is elite boost by worldofnoah in Knight

Elite scoring big man that had 65 bh above average defense with solid cores by the0nlyIS in Knight

Forgot about him, but this guy is my best "pure" non true scoring PG by the0nlyIS in Knight
I can't believe you brought up two guys from my conference and didn't mention my boy David Allen. LaForest is probably a slightly better all-around player because of his great passing and somewhat better defending, but when it comes to "pure offensive machines," I don't think they get a whole lot better than Allen at the D3 level.
3/24/2016 4:24 AM
I would take Hernandez 1A and Hendricks 1B.

I have had a lot of very good players, but not many great ones. If I was to make a lineup with my best players it would be something like this:

PG:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3060190
SG:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3081228
SF:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=2939133 (C- Recruit; I think a lot of teams missed out on him)
PF:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3081231
C:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=2637782

2 HM:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=2967482

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3135202 (B- Recruit)

....and a guy who has yet to finish his freshman year. Will be an 82 Ath, 85 Def, 99 Stam and is still high in Spd, Per, P..
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=3288028
3/24/2016 8:14 AM (edited)
Posted by pepwaves007 on 3/23/2016 6:00:00 PM (view original):
Hey! You're talking about the guy I signed at Georgia Tech. Trying to publicly shame me for that signing I see.

I definitely agree with you though. I would probably rather have Hendricks than him. He's maybe one of the worst players I've ever signed at a big 6 school in D1, but I needed an elite PER scorer and he was the best of the leftovers. That said, he is high-high in ATH and P, so he will be a little better than you suggested. Also, the benefit of a player like him over the guys in this thread is that he started with higher ratings...thus able to produce sooner. Of course, that's the difference between D1 and D3 players.
It doesn't count as public shaming when I didn't name the player, the coach, or the school, haha.

That said, the reason I noticed that you signed him is because he was on my watch list and I started scouting him in the first cycle. Would've been a backup plan, but I still had my eye on him.
3/24/2016 10:52 AM
Posted by cmac4567 on 3/23/2016 10:58:00 PM (view original):
I didn't mean to say Hendricks wasn't a better player of course if he would be a better D2 player he is above and beyond a better D3 Player. And yes it hard to look at stats or even just ratings without knowing the rest of the team and opponents. Just pointing out that while his rating are good he developed a lot the last two seasons. Where as a lot of other players where better career players and probably help their teams as much if not more.
Just kinda hard to say this guy is better than any other guy in a vacuum. tarvolon I believe had 2 NT during this guy's career so that to me has a lot more to do with it than anything, I didn't realize it till I looked.
Part of the reason Hendricks didn't score as much (as say, Hick, who I had totally forgotten about despite the fact that he may have the most productive single season of anyone I've ever coached) is because his teams were STACKED. They went to three consecutive title games, winning two and losing the other in what remains my most painful WIS upset. If you look at his shooting percentages, you can see that he could've handled a much higher scoring load (I mean, the dude averaged 19 PPG while shooting 48% from deep. . . seriously). But he didn't have to, because he had teammates who could also handle a significant load. The other guys aren't all-timers, but he was starting in a three-guard lineup alongside Rodrigo Perez and Ralph Biehl, and those two could put the ball in the hole.

He definitely did develop. I posted his starting cores earlier in the thread, and he definitely wouldn't have been anything great as a true freshman. I did redshirt him to get more development out of him, which ended up working out swimmingly. By the end of his redshirt sophomore season, he was at 60 ATH, 90 SPD, 70 DEF, 80 PER (remember, he started in the 20s in PER), 60 BH, and 70 pass. That may not be a dominant D3 player yet, but it's a starter on any team in the country
3/24/2016 11:09 AM (edited)
Posted by qb4usf on 3/24/2016 8:14:00 AM (view original):
I would take Hernandez 1A and Hendricks 1B.

I have had a lot of very good players, but not many great ones. If I was to make a lineup with my best players it would be something like this:

PG:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3060190
SG:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3081228
SF:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=2939133 (C- Recruit; I think a lot of teams missed out on him)
PF:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3081231
C:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=2637782

2 HM:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=2967482

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3135202 (B- Recruit)

....and a guy who has yet to finish his freshman year. Will be an 82 Ath, 85 Def, 99 Stam and is still high in Spd, Per, P..
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=3288028
I think Brauer (the Center here) has an argument for best ever. I have a couple of guys who will be in consideration, will post ratings/stats in a bit.
3/24/2016 11:11 AM
Posted by tarvolon on 3/24/2016 11:09:00 AM (view original):
Posted by cmac4567 on 3/23/2016 10:58:00 PM (view original):
I didn't mean to say Hendricks wasn't a better player of course if he would be a better D2 player he is above and beyond a better D3 Player. And yes it hard to look at stats or even just ratings without knowing the rest of the team and opponents. Just pointing out that while his rating are good he developed a lot the last two seasons. Where as a lot of other players where better career players and probably help their teams as much if not more.
Just kinda hard to say this guy is better than any other guy in a vacuum. tarvolon I believe had 2 NT during this guy's career so that to me has a lot more to do with it than anything, I didn't realize it till I looked.
Part of the reason Hendricks didn't score as much (as say, Hick, who I had totally forgotten about despite the fact that he may have the most productive single season of anyone I've ever coached) is because his teams were STACKED. They went to three consecutive title games, winning two and losing the other in what remains my most painful WIS upset. If you look at his shooting percentages, you can see that he could've handled a much higher scoring load (I mean, the dude averaged 19 PPG while shooting 48% from deep. . . seriously). But he didn't have to, because he had teammates who could also handle a significant load. The other guys aren't all-timers, but he was starting in a three-guard lineup alongside Rodrigo Perez and Ralph Biehl, and those two could put the ball in the hole.

He definitely did develop. I posted his starting cores earlier in the thread, and he definitely wouldn't have been anything great as a true freshman. I did redshirt him to get more development out of him, which ended up working out swimmingly. By the end of his redshirt sophomore season, he was at 60 ATH, 90 SPD, 70 DEF, 80 PER (remember, he started in the 20s in PER), 60 BH, and 70 pass. That may not be a dominant D3 player yet, but it's a starter on any team in the country
I'm not knocking this guy at all and I stated that I didn't notice the teams we was on as far as NT championship games. His end ratings are for sure awesome and yes he could play D1 with his end ratings.
I guess I misunderstand the question of best D3 player.
3/24/2016 1:49 PM
These players are from a while back, so their ratings aren't saved, but I have them here:

Avery Morris (OVERALL RATING: 795)
ATH 51
SPD 91
REB 14
DEF 62
BLK 19
LP 48
PE 98
BH 75
P 65
WE 92
STA 100
DU 80
FT B


I redshirted him his first year, and his stamina quickly went up to the 90s (he finished at 100!!!), which goes a long way. He put up huge and efficient numbers, and was a two-time National Player of the Year.

Clinton Creasman (OVERALL RATING: 796)
ATH 80
SPD 78
REB 23

DEF 96
BLK 21
LP 75
PER 75
BH 45
P 57
WE 97
ST 86
DU 63
FT B


Signed him as a JuCo with really low prestige (C- I think), so I got really lucky. Did not redshirt, and he had 40ish more points to grow if I recall correctly. He doesn't have any school records, and I'm no longer in Knight so I can't check (this was Anna Maria) and find his link.
3/24/2016 1:58 PM
I get it, cmac. It does depend on needs. If I needed a bench perimeter threat, I'd take your boy as a freshman over Hendricks as a freshman (which, I think is what you were getting it), even though Hendricks was better all-around. By their junior years though, I think Hendricks had caught up (and ultimately pulled ahead) as a scorer--it doesn't really come out in the stats, probably because of schedule factors
3/24/2016 1:59 PM
Posted by backboy13 on 3/24/2016 11:11:00 AM (view original):
Posted by qb4usf on 3/24/2016 8:14:00 AM (view original):
I would take Hernandez 1A and Hendricks 1B.

I have had a lot of very good players, but not many great ones. If I was to make a lineup with my best players it would be something like this:

PG:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3060190
SG:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3081228
SF:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=2939133 (C- Recruit; I think a lot of teams missed out on him)
PF:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3081231
C:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=2637782

2 HM:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=2967482

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3135202 (B- Recruit)

....and a guy who has yet to finish his freshman year. Will be an 82 Ath, 85 Def, 99 Stam and is still high in Spd, Per, P..
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=3288028
I think Brauer (the Center here) has an argument for best ever. I have a couple of guys who will be in consideration, will post ratings/stats in a bit.
My opinion is that Brauer is the best big ever for D-3 (at least that I have seen). It is hard to judge him with guards because of their dominance in D-3, but he is definitely up there as one of the greatest. Maybe we should find a way to vote for the ultimate D-3 lineup. I'm sure that could be something theOnlyis would like to jump on as well as a vote for overall.
3/24/2016 2:10 PM
Posted by qb4usf on 3/24/2016 2:10:00 PM (view original):
Posted by backboy13 on 3/24/2016 11:11:00 AM (view original):
Posted by qb4usf on 3/24/2016 8:14:00 AM (view original):
I would take Hernandez 1A and Hendricks 1B.

I have had a lot of very good players, but not many great ones. If I was to make a lineup with my best players it would be something like this:

PG:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3060190
SG:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3081228
SF:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=2939133 (C- Recruit; I think a lot of teams missed out on him)
PF:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3081231
C:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=2637782

2 HM:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=2967482

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3135202 (B- Recruit)

....and a guy who has yet to finish his freshman year. Will be an 82 Ath, 85 Def, 99 Stam and is still high in Spd, Per, P..
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=3288028
I think Brauer (the Center here) has an argument for best ever. I have a couple of guys who will be in consideration, will post ratings/stats in a bit.
My opinion is that Brauer is the best big ever for D-3 (at least that I have seen). It is hard to judge him with guards because of their dominance in D-3, but he is definitely up there as one of the greatest. Maybe we should find a way to vote for the ultimate D-3 lineup. I'm sure that could be something theOnlyis would like to jump on as well as a vote for overall.
Are we gonna go by position so they have to be listed as a C or PF or just the best starting 5 we can come up with?
3/24/2016 3:03 PM
Best overall starting 5 would probably be better. I moved two guys over on my little list in order to build (what I thought) was my best lineup.
3/24/2016 3:07 PM
Well, I was going to do the best all-time lineup (from my own teams) exercise, but then I accidentally brushed the mousepad with two fingers, my browser took me back, and the whole post was erased. So here's some musings about what I'd do.

It makes for some tough choices, and depends to some degree on what kind of offense you're planning to run. If I'm going flex, I can sacrifice a bit of rebounding from the three and just gun everyone down from the outside, just using Maryville alumni. I can roll three guards that average 60 ATH, 80 SPD, 65 DEF, 99 PER, 65 BH, and 80 P, using Anthony Hopper, Kyle Ryan (before archived ratings, but he was 70+ in ATH and SPD and 99 in PER), and Scott Hendricks. But even in a flex, I probably wouldn't do that, because there's always Alan Mericle (Maryville, pre-archives), who finished at roughly 80 ATH, 80 SPD, 40 REB, 90 DEF, 20 LP, 40 PER, 75 BH, 75 P, B- FT. It's hard to leave Mericle off an all-time D3 team, because he can be a lockdown defender at any guard position and can pour in the points, even if he can't shoot from the outside. A Hopper/Hendricks/Mericle backcourt would be unbelievable in a fastbreak offense. Although in a fastbreak offense, it might be tempting to replace Hopper with Jack Isabel (Dallas, pre-archives), who topped 60 ATH, 80 SPD, 70 DEF, 75 BH, 70 P, and had that fastbreak trifecta of 35 LP, A- FT, and 95 ST that would send him to the line trip after trip after trip.

And that entire discussion is totally ignoring Allen Hick, who has already been mentioned in this thread as an all-timer at SF. It's hard to leave him off, but do you take him over Mericle? I think I go Mericle.

I do think I have an easier time inside. I haven't had many dominant post players, so I'd probably go with Theo Erving (Austin, pre-archives), who topped 60 in ATH, SPD, SB, LP, and PER, topped 70 in DEF and REB, topped 30 in BH and P, and had B- FT and 97 stamina as my power forward. At center, I'd take Nathaniel Crowley from Dallas. I did have some pretty good bigs on my Greensboro teams in Wooden, but I don't think any of them would've beaten out Erving or Crowley.

So yeah, there's six backcourt players and two forwards. I think Hendricks, Mericle, Erving, and Crowley are four starters, and the fifth is a choice between Hopper (ideal as perimeter-oriented PG), Isabel (ideal as slashing PG), or Hick (who would play SF, move Mericle to SG, and move Hendricks to PG). It's a tough exercise. And where did all the players like this go? I still have a couple D3 teams, yet these are all from my first couple years at WIS.
3/24/2016 4:20 PM (edited)
D3 Name Pos. A SPD REB DE BLK LP PE BH P WE ST DU FT OVR
PG Joseph Henley Cal Tech PG 73 72 1 97 2 4 76 81 83 63 96 30 B- 678
SG Peter Smith La Grange SG 64 93 1 75 5 1 89 85 57 72 95 49 B- 686
SF Martin Copher La Grange SG 74 80 9 76 14 40 97 58 41 70 88 54 C+ 701
PF William Johnson St. John's C 61 43 96 78 64 93 1 21 20 77 89 59 C+ 702
C Rodney Joines Castleton St C 85 28 89 90 63 55 1 31 19 83 73 81 C+ 698


Probably the best starting five I can put together of my players only trouble is whether I went Joines at C or bring in Kevin Fernburg at PF and slide Johnson to Center. Otherwise I'm set, a little weak passing for my taste, a 72 speed PG isn't my favorite, and no sb are my 3 concerns. Although I guess you could say Johnson is weak athletically for a dream team.

Distro is Copher-Johnson-Smith getting the load, I was planning on running motion since it's my go to offense, but the weak passing has me reconsidering, maybe flex or fastbreak(however the FB might not be the best in a dream team tournament since so many teams are stacked), but I haven't coached flex enough to see if I would take it over motion. Defense is press.

I also took it a step further and created my 12 man lineup assuming I can run 12 seniors :D Only weakness is rebounding off the bench imo

Just looking between me q and tarv I said the starting fives go q>tar>me q has some amazing players especially his big men.

In a few days we can get an all-time starting five lineup. I don't think any of my guys make it, maybe Henley could be considered for starting point with 70 ath/spd 97 def and 80 bh/pas, however he's not a true scorer I bet someone has a PG who can also score
3/24/2016 6:09 PM (edited)
Posted by tarvolon on 3/24/2016 4:20:00 PM (view original):
Well, I was going to do the best all-time lineup (from my own teams) exercise, but then I accidentally brushed the mousepad with two fingers, my browser took me back, and the whole post was erased. So here's some musings about what I'd do.

It makes for some tough choices, and depends to some degree on what kind of offense you're planning to run. If I'm going flex, I can sacrifice a bit of rebounding from the three and just gun everyone down from the outside, just using Maryville alumni. I can roll three guards that average 60 ATH, 80 SPD, 65 DEF, 99 PER, 65 BH, and 80 P, using Anthony Hopper, Kyle Ryan (before archived ratings, but he was 70+ in ATH and SPD and 99 in PER), and Scott Hendricks. But even in a flex, I probably wouldn't do that, because there's always Alan Mericle (Maryville, pre-archives), who finished at roughly 80 ATH, 80 SPD, 40 REB, 90 DEF, 20 LP, 40 PER, 75 BH, 75 P, B- FT. It's hard to leave Mericle off an all-time D3 team, because he can be a lockdown defender at any guard position and can pour in the points, even if he can't shoot from the outside. A Hopper/Hendricks/Mericle backcourt would be unbelievable in a fastbreak offense. Although in a fastbreak offense, it might be tempting to replace Hopper with Jack Isabel (Dallas, pre-archives), who topped 60 ATH, 80 SPD, 70 DEF, 75 BH, 70 P, and had that fastbreak trifecta of 35 LP, A- FT, and 95 ST that would send him to the line trip after trip after trip.

And that entire discussion is totally ignoring Allen Hick, who has already been mentioned in this thread as an all-timer at SF. It's hard to leave him off, but do you take him over Mericle? I think I go Mericle.

I do think I have an easier time inside. I haven't had many dominant post players, so I'd probably go with Theo Erving (Austin, pre-archives), who topped 60 in ATH, SPD, SB, LP, and PER, topped 70 in DEF and REB, topped 30 in BH and P, and had B- FT and 97 stamina as my power forward. At center, I'd take Nathaniel Crowley from Dallas. I did have some pretty good bigs on my Greensboro teams in Wooden, but I don't think any of them would've beaten out Erving or Crowley.

So yeah, there's six backcourt players and two forwards. I think Hendricks, Mericle, Erving, and Crowley are four starters, and the fifth is a choice between Hopper (ideal as perimeter-oriented PG), Isabel (ideal as slashing PG), or Hick (who would play SF, move Mericle to SG, and move Hendricks to PG). It's a tough exercise. And where did all the players like this go? I still have a couple D3 teams, yet these are all from my first couple years at WIS.
You could trade one of your guards and go Hendricks-Mericle-Hick-Erving-Crowley You'd sacrifice a lot of perimeter shooting, but Hopper is a weak link defensively in this dream team scenario.
3/24/2016 6:03 PM
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