Grindi, what's the other site you play on?

Posted by grindi on 8/19/2012 8:38:00 PM (view original):
9500+ at DII and still hanging on.  Even if I get an ac pick it won't hurt the team.  I'm used to this nonsense.  Imagine a new guy playing.  Why would he want to stay?  He will probably have 3 or 4 of these guys.

Sorry to burst some of your prima donna bubbles but what attraction is it to newcomers to join a game that is stacked against them from the start?  How long and how much invested does it take to reach the supposed ultimate goal of getting an elite team?  Even getting to DIA a player is handicapped.  A lot of the mentality here is like corporate America.  Let's bring in technology so we can do the job better and faster.  We save money by not having as many people.  The problem is robots don't buy product.  Here SIMs don't pay the bills.  As long as SIMs keep getting more powerful, and they will because not as many humans are playing thus opening up better players to them, then the human numbers will continue to decline.

I disagree with all of the SIM stuff.  There should be absolutely no way a SIM beats a human especially at DIII where newcomers enter.  It should take not 3000 to drive them off but 1000 or 1500.  After all if a player only goes after players the SIMs can see he will never get to the top.  As long as SIMs can force players to spend their recruit dollars and pull upsets, WIS benefits by not having to hand out rewards and the longer the players think they have a shot of winning they spend money.  But here is the reality.  Vets have quit and are still quitting to the applause of some of you boneheads on here.  New guys are coming in to see what it is about and leaving because the deck is stacked against them.  How many people that got free credits to try this have stayed?  Hardly any.  That last offer to the masses to give away a free season was a slap in the face to the people that have stayed through these miserable times.  They in essence said "we are trying to drum up new business so here's a free game.  By the way vets, screw you."   What do we have 500 players?  Most with more than one team.  It would have cost them squat to give everybody a game.  We've stayed through being Beta testers to now with all the promises of fixing this abomination and the bandaids they've put on and for what?  We are dollars and that is all.  No loyalty returned.  But thats ok, it's now the way of the world.  Get all you can get from someone, then toss them out like an old shoe and find some other sucker.

But again I digress, or is it digest.  The SIM cluster f is Not helping to grow the game at all.  It is having an opposite effect.  I am not whining about it just stating a fact.  Changing a rule for my benefit is not why I even bring it up.  Check my record.  I'm not a greenhorn. The other site I play on has 670,589 managers and NOBODY is allowed more than 1 ID or team in a sport.  If they see the same computer ID they watch it and then ban them when they are sure it is the same user.  They currently have only Soccer, Hockey, and Tennis.  You can play for free but getting the expanded version is better.  They are growing.  WIS is not.  At the other place SIMs are the bottem feeders.  At WIS they are not.  Draw your own conclusion but mine happens to be the SIMs at WIS are far to powerful all the way around and are partly to blame for receeding numbers.

I get what you are saying.  I am at Ga Tech and had a back-up OL that I had been pumping a littl cash into ($1,500) to keep him yellow.  Turns out, due to some battles that I lost, that I needed him so I made a hard push for this guy.  I ended up putting $4,000 into the guy and he signed with a DIAA school that was 488 miles away from him.  I was only 218 miles from the guy.

So, we all share in the frustration.  It is is just part of the game in its current state.  We either choose to wait out the update and play the game - knowing how it is, though it may be frustrating - or move on to something else.

if keeping new players in d3 and maybe d2 is the goal, then I can see the sims on the lower end of talent being easier to defeat. This would allow rebuilds and new coaches to improve their teams. But I see no need to make recruiting easier for those at the top of D3 and D2. I have a top team in d2 yost and its the easiest place to recruit, mostly due to undecideds that I can see and others can't. I should have to work for top tier recruits that also have sims on them. But I am sympathetic to rebuilds and new coaches and maybe life can be made easier for them.

As far as D1aa and D1, I have very little sympathy. If you were hoping to jump on a guy late that a sim was on, that was your own choice. By that point, you know how sims operate. I rebuilt a terrible d1a team in yost by beating sims and knowing where to attack. People need to learn that rather than whine that it should be easier. I know we are conference-mates partyrock, but waiting on the backup was your own mistake. D1aa are not automatic wins in d1 and I just spent 14-15k getting a guy green from a human d1aa. if they want it enough, they can land a d1a talent. I don't see why sims should be denied that if they spend the equivalent of 15k (i know the don't exactly have cash) and you spent too little, too late. It could take 4k+ to knock them off, even the first cycle. Unlikely, but possible.

I understand I went heavy late, but the recruit was yellow after the very first round with Ga Tech and the DIAA school tied up.  I just tried to maintain that status.  I wanted to clarify that he was not red when I went after him aggressively.  Lastly, I never received anything in any way that would constitute a negative response from this recruit.   I did not have a lot of cash left, though, when I out the blitz on.

You live and you learn!

Posted by grindi on 8/18/2012 10:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mr_mojo on 8/18/2012 9:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tcochran on 8/18/2012 7:30:00 PM (view original):
Like stingray said, if you're struggling to beat out SIMs in recruiting then you're doing something wrong.

+1

Here's a question for you prima donnas that think they know it all.   When was the last time you recruited for a crappy team?  If you take over a crappy team struggling against SIMs is the norm.  I don't have any problems with established teams.  If that happens with established teams then your right.  BUT I AM NOT A FREAKING ROOKIE AND I DON'T DO TO BADLY AT ALL.  Not a single one of you guys trashing me had the balls to take the challenge a few seasons ago in Heisman.  So excuse me If I don't take the advice from people who won't even except challenges not just leaguewise but team wise.  Some of you have ducked OOC games.  So F off. 

It is much easier to knock off a simai before signings start.  If you wait until after it is going to cost you at least the amount of money allocated per recruit and prob some promised playing time.  I like the fact that simai can hold their own at times.  Can't make the game too easy.  For the record I am in the progress of two rebuilds right now.  Sounds like you need to have a recruiting plan and stick to it.

Posted by rbond on 8/20/2012 3:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by grindi on 8/18/2012 10:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mr_mojo on 8/18/2012 9:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tcochran on 8/18/2012 7:30:00 PM (view original):
Like stingray said, if you're struggling to beat out SIMs in recruiting then you're doing something wrong.

+1

Here's a question for you prima donnas that think they know it all.   When was the last time you recruited for a crappy team?  If you take over a crappy team struggling against SIMs is the norm.  I don't have any problems with established teams.  If that happens with established teams then your right.  BUT I AM NOT A FREAKING ROOKIE AND I DON'T DO TO BADLY AT ALL.  Not a single one of you guys trashing me had the balls to take the challenge a few seasons ago in Heisman.  So excuse me If I don't take the advice from people who won't even except challenges not just leaguewise but team wise.  Some of you have ducked OOC games.  So F off. 

It is much easier to knock off a simai before signings start.  If you wait until after it is going to cost you at least the amount of money allocated per recruit and prob some promised playing time.  I like the fact that simai can hold their own at times.  Can't make the game too easy.  For the record I am in the progress of two rebuilds right now.  Sounds like you need to have a recruiting plan and stick to it.

yep.  Not overly difficult to knock sims off. 

if you go hard and fast then you knock them off 1st or 2nd cycle,  if u nickle and dime then they do it right back.  I always offer more than I expect it to take to knock off the sim,  u know some will be rejected so just account for that and it will never ever be an issue.  id rather overspend up front by a little bit than to overspend by a lot later on.

Posted by badaxe on 8/19/2012 9:01:00 AM (view original):
"The longer you wait, the harder it is to knock them off. So don't wait."

Also, look at how many recruits the sim school needs. And how many recruits they have already been knocked off of.

AND what they said.

I've never had a problem knocking off sims, and I've rebuilt a lot of terrible teams

I can count on one hand the number of SIMs I've tried to knock off in all my D3 seasons combined.  You don't need to knock off SIMs to be competitive at that level.  

In D2, if you're selective and only try for 1 or 2 SIMs each season, it's not a problem at all.  

It's not until D1AA and D1A where you need to get a majority of your class from SIMs and you should know how to recruit by then.

I really don't see a problem as it stands even with empty worlds.  If WIS can fill the worlds again, SIMs on recruits are a total non factor.

Posted by kilgo on 8/20/2012 3:08:00 PM (view original):
if keeping new players in d3 and maybe d2 is the goal, then I can see the sims on the lower end of talent being easier to defeat. This would allow rebuilds and new coaches to improve their teams. But I see no need to make recruiting easier for those at the top of D3 and D2. I have a top team in d2 yost and its the easiest place to recruit, mostly due to undecideds that I can see and others can't. I should have to work for top tier recruits that also have sims on them. But I am sympathetic to rebuilds and new coaches and maybe life can be made easier for them.

As far as D1aa and D1, I have very little sympathy. If you were hoping to jump on a guy late that a sim was on, that was your own choice. By that point, you know how sims operate. I rebuilt a terrible d1a team in yost by beating sims and knowing where to attack. People need to learn that rather than whine that it should be easier. I know we are conference-mates partyrock, but waiting on the backup was your own mistake. D1aa are not automatic wins in d1 and I just spent 14-15k getting a guy green from a human d1aa. if they want it enough, they can land a d1a talent. I don't see why sims should be denied that if they spend the equivalent of 15k (i know the don't exactly have cash) and you spent too little, too late. It could take 4k+ to knock them off, even the first cycle. Unlikely, but possible.

I agree mostly.  By the time a player gets too DIAA he should be able to fend for himself.  At the lower levels the upper echelon doesn't have to worry about the SIMs because they rarely go after them and when they do their prestige kicks them out.  It can be a pain in the butt at DIA and DIAA but it won't make or break a team.  There are times when I purposely don't look for 3 of my recruits in order to have that money on 1 or 2 exceptional guys.  I have no qualms about cutting the next season.  But I have over 9500 into a guy and a low rated SIM still has him yellow at DII.  This LI team is maybe in the top 30 yet the SIM is still there.  Now I know I have a very good chance of signing him anyways but newer players don't know that.  I think the way WIS handles these SIMs is hurting the game.

Posted by slid64er on 8/20/2012 7:02:00 PM (view original):
I can count on one hand the number of SIMs I've tried to knock off in all my D3 seasons combined.  You don't need to knock off SIMs to be competitive at that level.  

In D2, if you're selective and only try for 1 or 2 SIMs each season, it's not a problem at all.  

It's not until D1AA and D1A where you need to get a majority of your class from SIMs and you should know how to recruit by then.

I really don't see a problem as it stands even with empty worlds.  If WIS can fill the worlds again, SIMs on recruits are a total non factor.

Slid, were you playing down there with the worlds so empty?  I'm finding there is a difference in recruiting now then there was when the worlds were fuller.  On my rebuild now, at DII, I am into my 3rd season, and every halfway decent guy in my vision is red by SIMs by the time I start my 1st cycle.  I look at 3 guys for every roster spot so if I have 10 spots that is 30 guys that get scouted.  The first and 2nd seasons every one of those guys were red for my first cycle from SIMs.  This 3rd season about 75% were. What really grinds me is when I scout a guy 1st cycle.  Like him and throw 3-5 CVs on him the next cycle, and he stays red or turns yellow. Then on the next cycle I throw 3-5 CVs again on him and he turns them down.  WTF He already accepted them the cycle before.  Now I'm farther behind.  I have this one guy this season that turned yellow, refused my cvs after he had accepted them before, and turn red to the same SIM I was uellow with.  I then had to send a HCScout and 3 CVs to get him yellow again.  I now have 9500 in him and he is still yellow and signing started at noon yesterday.  Like I say he will probably sign with me and if he doesn't it isn't a big deal.  But if this is happening to newer guys I can see why they are leaving.  This is messed up.

Posted by grindi on 8/20/2012 10:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slid64er on 8/20/2012 7:02:00 PM (view original):
I can count on one hand the number of SIMs I've tried to knock off in all my D3 seasons combined.  You don't need to knock off SIMs to be competitive at that level.  

In D2, if you're selective and only try for 1 or 2 SIMs each season, it's not a problem at all.  

It's not until D1AA and D1A where you need to get a majority of your class from SIMs and you should know how to recruit by then.

I really don't see a problem as it stands even with empty worlds.  If WIS can fill the worlds again, SIMs on recruits are a total non factor.

Slid, were you playing down there with the worlds so empty?  I'm finding there is a difference in recruiting now then there was when the worlds were fuller.  On my rebuild now, at DII, I am into my 3rd season, and every halfway decent guy in my vision is red by SIMs by the time I start my 1st cycle.  I look at 3 guys for every roster spot so if I have 10 spots that is 30 guys that get scouted.  The first and 2nd seasons every one of those guys were red for my first cycle from SIMs.  This 3rd season about 75% were. What really grinds me is when I scout a guy 1st cycle.  Like him and throw 3-5 CVs on him the next cycle, and he stays red or turns yellow. Then on the next cycle I throw 3-5 CVs again on him and he turns them down.  WTF He already accepted them the cycle before.  Now I'm farther behind.  I have this one guy this season that turned yellow, refused my cvs after he had accepted them before, and turn red to the same SIM I was uellow with.  I then had to send a HCScout and 3 CVs to get him yellow again.  I now have 9500 in him and he is still yellow and signing started at noon yesterday.  Like I say he will probably sign with me and if he doesn't it isn't a big deal.  But if this is happening to newer guys I can see why they are leaving.  This is messed up.

Yes, I've followed the same strategy in an empty world (Bryant) with the new engine.  Took an all sim team and won an NC in season 6 of the rebuild.  Never battled a SIM for any recruit.

I really don't think you need to take recruits from SIMs to be competitive at the lower levels, even in empty worlds.

The only thing new about recruiting that I have noticed (thanks to Yatzr) is that 3 to 5 sim teams per year will have entire recruit classes predetermined before the 1st cycle even begins. The recruits are pretty solid and only want that particular team.  I can see how it might be frustrating to average human coaches.  These recruits would look like the best in there vision.

Like Slid64er said; trying to get sim guys is a waste. There is at least 3 ways to get  recruits to "70" as a senior.  Stop allowing "we" to be the "end all" stat.

I typically recruit 2 TE's every other season. Both high "POT". And I redshirt the one with Higher "we".  

Once again, both came from the same recruiting year. Eastman has a "we" of  93 and Norris a 44.  I am in game 7 of the there 3rd year and Eastman is just now finally catching up to Norris.  BTW, Eastman was brought in at 42.76 and Norris at 45.60.   So, after 40 games Eastman's HUGE "WE" advantage yielded   a whopping 2.84 growth differential.  

BOTTOM LINE: is if Eastman had been being recruited by a sim team than his intrinsic value to me would have been alot lower.  At d3 it would of costed me at least 2 CV's to knock off a sim team and that ain't worth a 2.84 growth  differential. 

At my North Dakota team, every OL within my vision- EVERY FREAKING ONE- with 58 GI/TECH, is red. There are 2 guys with 55/55 that are undecided, but both have a TECH in the teens.