Recruiting Update - Schedule Proposal 2 Topic

bagger288
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Posted by the0nlyis on 9/14/2015 9:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by metsmax on 9/14/2015 9:32:00 PM (view original):
I think this schedule discussion illustrates the ripples of effects of the planned scouting changes - most of which can be filed under "fixing what isnt broken"

in my opinion, the scouting aspect of the game is pretty good - a small number of improvements could make it better - like programming evals to avoid repetitous results.  Scouting isnt what needs fixing.
Exactly while it does sound really neat to an extent, I'm pretty sure the scouting and timelines changes weren't the foremost of everyone's complaints.  And won't do as much to fix the problem's people want fixed.

The fact that the recruit generation is not planned on being fixed is a joke.

I think with all the talk in recruiting and scouting but no talk about fixing hiring/firing... I feel the community complains about that more than recruiting/scouting
9/15/2015 1:12 AM
jaymc2007
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Posted by bagger288 on 9/15/2015 1:12:00 AM (view original):
Posted by the0nlyis on 9/14/2015 9:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by metsmax on 9/14/2015 9:32:00 PM (view original):
I think this schedule discussion illustrates the ripples of effects of the planned scouting changes - most of which can be filed under "fixing what isnt broken"

in my opinion, the scouting aspect of the game is pretty good - a small number of improvements could make it better - like programming evals to avoid repetitous results.  Scouting isnt what needs fixing.
Exactly while it does sound really neat to an extent, I'm pretty sure the scouting and timelines changes weren't the foremost of everyone's complaints.  And won't do as much to fix the problem's people want fixed.

The fact that the recruit generation is not planned on being fixed is a joke.

I think with all the talk in recruiting and scouting but no talk about fixing hiring/firing... I feel the community complains about that more than recruiting/scouting
Yes. That only scares me because eventually I want to take over a Big D1 program but feel I'll never have that chance with guys sitting at D1 schools where as in real life they would have been fired for their lack of success.
9/15/2015 4:34 AM
dacj501
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So there will be nothing except honor to stop a coach from spending team A's scouting budget locating players and getting level 3 or 4 scouting data, then changing schools and using Team B's data just to find the same kids again and not have to scout their data, assuming the kid doesn't sign during round 1? Then they can use the rest of the new budget, however that works, to locate and scout more players?
9/15/2015 4:56 AM
p6453
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Posted by dacj501 on 9/15/2015 4:56:00 AM (view original):
So there will be nothing except honor to stop a coach from spending team A's scouting budget locating players and getting level 3 or 4 scouting data, then changing schools and using Team B's data just to find the same kids again and not have to scout their data, assuming the kid doesn't sign during round 1? Then they can use the rest of the new budget, however that works, to locate and scout more players?
+1
9/15/2015 8:01 AM
pkoopman
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Posted by dacj501 on 9/15/2015 4:56:00 AM (view original):
So there will be nothing except honor to stop a coach from spending team A's scouting budget locating players and getting level 3 or 4 scouting data, then changing schools and using Team B's data just to find the same kids again and not have to scout their data, assuming the kid doesn't sign during round 1? Then they can use the rest of the new budget, however that works, to locate and scout more players?
This scenario sounds way more sinister than it would actually be. First of all, yeah, I think if the coach put the work into scouting, and wants to take notes or save to excel, or whatever in case they switch jobs, those scouting reports can go with them. It's not like real life coaches are obligated to forget all their notes and contacts from their previous jobs when they move to a new school.

As far as gameplay goes here, I'm not seeing the big deal. Are we going to have a rash of coaches trying to "game the system" by jumping around to snatch "extra" scouting money for a new job? I have no doubt some people will try to find ways to get some extra advantage, but in this case it's going to be weak. A lot of those players will be gone, or won't be interested in a new school - or if the coach is moving up, the data will be for players that are below the level they can get now. So say maybe you're moving from low D1 to a Big 6 school. The players that showed up to your camp were players available to a low D1 school. Does it matter so much if you can remember who the best ones were? They are not likely to be the best players you can get anymore. Or even if they are, because you're at a low prestige big 6, you still have to invest new effort in recruiting them, because as sable has said, recruits won't be following coaches.
9/15/2015 9:28 AM
coachvegas44
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It would appear whether mandatory or voluntary, more time will be required during the season. It would probably force me to drop 1 or 2 of my 3 teams. Not happy!
9/15/2015 9:36 AM
npb7768
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Posted by dacj501 on 9/15/2015 4:56:00 AM (view original):
So there will be nothing except honor to stop a coach from spending team A's scouting budget locating players and getting level 3 or 4 scouting data, then changing schools and using Team B's data just to find the same kids again and not have to scout their data, assuming the kid doesn't sign during round 1? Then they can use the rest of the new budget, however that works, to locate and scout more players?
Can't you already do that in today's HD?

In Div-1, I saved up enough money at Crum Holy Cross from the previous recruiting year to scout all of New England and New York.   I've already FSS'ed these 7 states.   I can already see the potential of all 300+ recruits in those states.   So in theory I can switch jobs at the end of this year, and move to New Hampshire with its 6 openings, and reign terror on the Patriot in the coming years.     Same situation.
9/15/2015 10:25 AM (edited)
npb7768
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What about an idea to allow scouting and recruiting of high school juniors?    Potential would be available, but would be less defined and more erratic.   It might allow lower Div-1 schools to tap into some talent, because the player pool would be enormous.   The junior would play his final year of high school, and then join your team the following season.   And then if I were to sign a HS junior, but then I change jobs, the recruit would de-commit.  

Opening up a HS juniors pool would also even out money distribution.   In Div-1, get $16k for every SR opening, and $12k for every JR opening.

EDIT:  The HS junior pool would be only half the number that will show up as HS seniors the next year.   So a lower Div-1 school could take a flyer on a solid player, while the Big 6 schools may balk, because even better players may show up (the kid might "blow up" his senior year) the following year.
9/15/2015 1:14 PM (edited)
rogelio
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Posted by npb7768 on 9/15/2015 10:25:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dacj501 on 9/15/2015 4:56:00 AM (view original):
So there will be nothing except honor to stop a coach from spending team A's scouting budget locating players and getting level 3 or 4 scouting data, then changing schools and using Team B's data just to find the same kids again and not have to scout their data, assuming the kid doesn't sign during round 1? Then they can use the rest of the new budget, however that works, to locate and scout more players?
Can't you already do that in today's HD?

In Div-1, I saved up enough money at Crum Holy Cross from the previous recruiting year to scout all of New England and New York.   I've already FSS'ed these 7 states.   I can already see the potential of all 300+ recruits in those states.   So in theory I can switch jobs at the end of this year, and move to New Hampshire with its 6 openings, and reign terror on the Patriot in the coming years.     Same situation.
You can benefit yourself that way (assuming you save all the FSS data before leaving), but you don't damage the incoming coach by your misbehavior.   I don't believe that any of that retained budget would have carried over to the new coach anyhow.  I believe they would just receive that season's openings plus the tournament bonus from the immediate prior season.  

So, under the current rules, I don't think the incoming coach is actually harmed at all.  Under the new system, your effort and use of budget during the 1st cycle would have an enormous impact on the incoming coach that would not necessarily be apparent during the job application process.   I assume that's why seble initially preferred to have recruiting completed before the job applications.  At least that way you could see what you are buying into.

I am trying to be fair to the concept of in-season recruiting, but the incoming players benefit the incoming coach.  Allowing me to recruit players that I will NEVER see on campus (assuming I've already decided to leave) is just a bad idea.  The incentives are all wrong.  IMHO, whatever its problems and however much it may not quite mirror reality, I think this game is much better off in its current format.  You make the bed in which you will have to lay.
9/15/2015 10:59 AM
npb7768
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Ok, right, the incoming coach can get hurt.   I was looking at it from the original coach's perspective... gaining FSS knowledge, then moving jobs and using that information.

9/15/2015 11:50 AM
dacj501
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Assuming that there will be some sort of beta world to test all this in, would it be possible to roll it out live once that was complete into a new world that was the only one to run this new system for a while and allow coaches that either don't want to test it out early or who like the game the way it is to keep playing in the worlds we have now? At least short term?

Presumably the technology exists if there can be a beta test world running different software alongside the regular game...
9/15/2015 12:31 PM
cmac4567
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I believe to fix the issue of incoming coach is (and I think seble said this) they would get money's for scouting and money for recruiting for signing period 2 for the amount of spots left open. I think it would need beta testing to make sure the scouting money's are enough to work.
I personally think the prestige needs fixed to. I see allot of comments about changing teams and I see it allot. I don't think a coach that has a team for one year with a C prestige should be able to jump to an A prestige. In real life a AD isn't going to hire a C prestige coach a div lower for his A prestige school. And if he does then the school should take a prestige hit. I see allot of coaches jump from school to school to chase that A prestige.
9/15/2015 1:03 PM
seble
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Thanks to everyone for all the feedback on the upcoming recruiting update.  I'll continue to monitor the discussions, but I have enough to get started now.  I'll continue to provide updates of my progress in the Development Blog thread and will probably start a few more discussion topics and polls along the way as I dig into all the details.

I'll schedule a few developer chats too, so I can answer questions that I may have missed.
9/16/2015 8:31 AM
p6453
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Posted by seble on 9/16/2015 8:31:00 AM (view original):
Thanks to everyone for all the feedback on the upcoming recruiting update.  I'll continue to monitor the discussions, but I have enough to get started now.  I'll continue to provide updates of my progress in the Development Blog thread and will probably start a few more discussion topics and polls along the way as I dig into all the details.

I'll schedule a few developer chats too, so I can answer questions that I may have missed.
Seble,
Do you have any kind of timeline when this update will officially roll out for all the worlds? Weeks? A month or two? If you have any idea I think it would help some of the coaches like me who are destined to leave once it hits. I'd like to be able to enjoy the game as-is for awhile before it changes. Thanks for the updates.
9/16/2015 9:47 AM
seble
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It depends on how testing goes as to how long it'll take, but it will be months, not weeks. I hope that those of you who plan to quit would at least participate in the beta testing before deciding to hate the update.  There are a lot of premature conclusions being made at this point.
9/16/2015 10:07 AM
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