Posted by dacj501 on 2/28/2016 10:20:00 AM (view original):
"term limits" might work for folks who want them, but only because half the current coaches will quit and there should be lots of open jobs then.

I'm gone if someone artificially takes my A+ job, that I spent 7 IRL years trying to learn how to land, away from me.

**** That.

I agree many coaches will quit.

All changes of significance tend to lose a fair number of coaches.

It is real important that what ever comes next can start to keep the coaches who are starting off, rather than simply retain those that have been here 7 years though.

I just think that at some point, looking at the population data, the current system is a model of a entity that is slowly dying off.

I don't know if any fix will work. Certainly the 'term limits' is not in my own best interest either. And I don't think I would have been in favor of it 4-5 years ago. But I have not read a better idea about how to get some sort of a spike in interest / advantage from the newer coaches in the game. If it were easy to fix, it probably would have been done.

Division One is a mess. It Probably always will be and part of the reason, I believe, is it tilted so strongly to a small group of players (Big 6 teams). It can be argued either way that this is a reflection of real life. I don't think it is as extreme as in this game and would argue that in "real life" very, very, very few coaches are at a Big Six school or even Division One schools for 50 plus years (poor job firing process). And none of them would be there with consecutive losing, non-tournament years for 5 consecutive years.

It would be equally tough to force coaches such as Dacj501, who paid and earned their way to their "favorite school", to arbitrarily leave it. But I do wonder, if not for personal reasons ie: alum of the university, if there was a more equal playing field in getting a 5 star player or players for mid majors, would those schools still be such a "favorite" school or is it simply the Huge advantages that the Big 6 offer that make it a favorite?

Maybe someday the "promised" new recruiting generation and recruiting process will address these issues. I am not convinced it wont simply create more of a mess.

Posted by oldresorter on 2/28/2016 11:14:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 2/28/2016 10:20:00 AM (view original):
"term limits" might work for folks who want them, but only because half the current coaches will quit and there should be lots of open jobs then.

I'm gone if someone artificially takes my A+ job, that I spent 7 IRL years trying to learn how to land, away from me.

**** That.

I agree many coaches will quit.

All changes of significance tend to lose a fair number of coaches.

It is real important that what ever comes next can start to keep the coaches who are starting off, rather than simply retain those that have been here 7 years though.

I just think that at some point, looking at the population data, the current system is a model of a entity that is slowly dying off.

I don't know if any fix will work. Certainly the 'term limits' is not in my own best interest either. And I don't think I would have been in favor of it 4-5 years ago. But I have not read a better idea about how to get some sort of a spike in interest / advantage from the newer coaches in the game. If it were easy to fix, it probably would have been done.

I guess I am too shortsighted to see why a bunch of new coaches are more important customers than those that have spent years of time and hundreds or thousands of dollars on the site...

I have a total of 285 seasons. I have spent 23 of them at Michigan State in Rupp. 12 of those were restoring it from a C+ to A-.

So under this plan I have 27 more seasons then I get to start over...It took me over 250 seasons to get here, but I have to go back to square one...and some people in this thread want me gone in 2 more.

I guess I am just a selfish *****, but I would rather the game close down entirely and shutter the doors for good with me being the last human coach standing in the game at MSU and everyone else has quit in disgust before I willingly go along with having my team stripped from me. No one stripped anyone from their job to get me promoted. They can wait like I did, or someone can change the system so new coaches don't have to wait like that without it ******* me.

I'll throw out one hypothetical situation, lets say in tark that Gil, Oldresorter, JBASnight, GFox, d2 guru dcy0827 and another 6-10 coaches who I might be leaving off and are probably even better coaches all get folded over back into d3. Heck maybe the top winning % coaches with over 50 seasons played should be the targets to get folded over first?

Anyhow, Doesn't tark d3, if all or realistically most choose to stay playing, suddenly get interesting? Many of those I mention would stay IMO, and would get pretty darned competitive about who would be the best 'new' d3 coach. IMO I would massacre that bunch at starting over - LOL. REally I am laughing out loud.

Which one of those vets gets to a big 6 school first? Or even makes d2? Any of them win a national title in d3? Any of them not be able to cut it, and get stuck in d3? Which up and comer coaches will prove to be better than the old timers.

Who will fill the void in the Big 6? Will any new d1 guru's take over?

And once the whole things settles out, who will accomplish the most in a 50 season span? KMost wins? Most titles? Best %'s?

Also, I'm pretty sure spreading the top vet coaching talent around in dozens of conferences rather than 6 of them, will help educate newer players. I don't post much any longer, but usually am willing to discuss any issue on the conf coaches corner.

DAC and others, I'm not saying this is a perfect idea, but I do see some merit in the long run, even if there are some short haul issues.

Posted by dacj501 on 2/28/2016 11:24:00 AM (view original):
I have a total of 285 seasons. I have spent 23 of them at Michigan State in Rupp. 12 of those were restoring it from a C+ to A-.

So under this plan I have 27 more seasons then I get to start over...It took me over 250 seasons to get here, but I have to go back to square one...and some people in this thread want me gone in 2 more.

I guess I am just a selfish *****, but I would rather the game close down entirely and shutter the doors for good with me being the last human coach standing in the game at MSU and everyone else has quit in disgust before I willingly go along with having my team stripped from me. No one stripped anyone from their job to get me promoted. They can wait like I did, or someone can change the system so new coaches don't have to wait like that without it ******* me.

Dac maybe each coach can keep one team? I don't know, I'm just sort of killing a sunday morning and trying to drum up some interest. Remember when threads used to race into double digit pages in hours?

I dont think they are even as important as the people that have spent years and the corresponding Dollar$. I do feel that it is important to have everyone have at least a Chance to compete fairly. It is nearly Impossible to battle and win one 5 star player at mid majors without seriously damaging the rest of the recruiting class. Big 6 can load entire teams with 5 and 4 stars with the prestige and tourney money advantages. And with Sims coaching some of those Big 6 schools where others (new coaches with excellent resumes) are unable to fill those positions I can see where it is frustrating for many.

And there are some coaches at Big 6's that stay even when they dont produce (course many took over after years of sim run teams so they have to rebuild).

The whole process is a mess. I dont really care, I worked my way to a Big 6 once (Tenn) and very quickly (3 WIS years) decided it wasnt as enjoyable as Div 2 for me. Simply stating I understand where some, and I think are legitimate, of the complaints are founded.

Posted by oldresorter on 2/28/2016 11:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 2/28/2016 11:24:00 AM (view original):
I have a total of 285 seasons. I have spent 23 of them at Michigan State in Rupp. 12 of those were restoring it from a C+ to A-.

So under this plan I have 27 more seasons then I get to start over...It took me over 250 seasons to get here, but I have to go back to square one...and some people in this thread want me gone in 2 more.

I guess I am just a selfish *****, but I would rather the game close down entirely and shutter the doors for good with me being the last human coach standing in the game at MSU and everyone else has quit in disgust before I willingly go along with having my team stripped from me. No one stripped anyone from their job to get me promoted. They can wait like I did, or someone can change the system so new coaches don't have to wait like that without it ******* me.

Dac maybe each coach can keep one team? I don't know, I'm just sort of killing a sunday morning and trying to drum up some interest. Remember when threads used to race into double digit pages in hours?

I do, and I've always respected the hell out of you OR, and still do. Maybe when I've had more than 23 seasons at the pinnacle I'd be more receptive.

But fighting for so long to get here, I am not at all interested in any plan to artificially take it away...

I know I can be overbearing and that tends to quell discussion a lot of the time - to that I implore folks - step up and tell me I'm wrong or whatever, I'll probably argue back, but I'll try to to be too big a dick about it...

I love this forum almost as much as the game. I don't expect us to agree all of the time...I suppose I've made my point and don't need to keep going back to the well - I guess that's just my need for the last word ;)

Posted by taniajane on 2/28/2016 11:35:00 AM (view original):
I dont think they are even as important as the people that have spent years and the corresponding Dollar$. I do feel that it is important to have everyone have at least a Chance to compete fairly. It is nearly Impossible to battle and win one 5 star player at mid majors without seriously damaging the rest of the recruiting class. Big 6 can load entire teams with 5 and 4 stars with the prestige and tourney money advantages. And with Sims coaching some of those Big 6 schools where others (new coaches with excellent resumes) are unable to fill those positions I can see where it is frustrating for many.

And there are some coaches at Big 6's that stay even when they dont produce (course many took over after years of sim run teams so they have to rebuild).

The whole process is a mess. I dont really care, I worked my way to a Big 6 once (Tenn) and very quickly (3 WIS years) decided it wasnt as enjoyable as Div 2 for me. Simply stating I understand where some, and I think are legitimate, of the complaints are founded.

for the record, I have 0 problems with ramping up firings considerably. At least in that scenario when you lose your team it is for a good reason, and if you can't cut it at that level make way for someone else to try.

Posted by oldresorter on 2/28/2016 11:29:00 AM (view original):
I'll throw out one hypothetical situation, lets say in tark that Gil, Oldresorter, JBASnight, GFox, d2 guru dcy0827 and another 6-10 coaches who I might be leaving off and are probably even better coaches all get folded over back into d3. Heck maybe the top winning % coaches with over 50 seasons played should be the targets to get folded over first?

Anyhow, Doesn't tark d3, if all or realistically most choose to stay playing, suddenly get interesting? Many of those I mention would stay IMO, and would get pretty darned competitive about who would be the best 'new' d3 coach. IMO I would massacre that bunch at starting over - LOL. REally I am laughing out loud.

Which one of those vets gets to a big 6 school first? Or even makes d2? Any of them win a national title in d3? Any of them not be able to cut it, and get stuck in d3? Which up and comer coaches will prove to be better than the old timers.

Who will fill the void in the Big 6? Will any new d1 guru's take over?

And once the whole things settles out, who will accomplish the most in a 50 season span? KMost wins? Most titles? Best %'s?

Also, I'm pretty sure spreading the top vet coaching talent around in dozens of conferences rather than 6 of them, will help educate newer players. I don't post much any longer, but usually am willing to discuss any issue on the conf coaches corner.

DAC and others, I'm not saying this is a perfect idea, but I do see some merit in the long run, even if there are some short haul issues.

OR, that might be interesting - if all those coaches had any interest in dicking around in D3 or D2 for the next x number of seasons - but what if 80% of them just say to hell with it? Then we lose guys like that so that new guys with maybe little proven record to be great or whatever can take over - maybe that just reduces the overall quality of coaching? Maybe that doesn't matter, who knows...

I just don't think that all the deposed coaches would just willingly go back to D3. Plus, after that first season when it kicks in, every other new season will only see a couple of coaches drift into that pool I'd wager, so even if they agree to relegation and start over it might not be as interesting when its 3 guys out of 280 schools or whatever?

I don't mean to run you down for trying to come up with something, but for more than personal reasons, but also for personal ones (and I'm not ashamed of that - I worked hard to get to this program, and I'm sorry if I don't mind that it's hard for others to do so too) I can't get behind any forced resignation plan...unless it's possibly world consolidation, and then only under an extreme proposal, and frankly that probably would only serve to make it harder for newer coaches what with fewer jobs...

Posted by dacj501 on 2/28/2016 11:40:00 AM (view original):

Posted by oldresorter on 2/28/2016 11:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 2/28/2016 11:24:00 AM (view original):
I have a total of 285 seasons. I have spent 23 of them at Michigan State in Rupp. 12 of those were restoring it from a C+ to A-.

So under this plan I have 27 more seasons then I get to start over...It took me over 250 seasons to get here, but I have to go back to square one...and some people in this thread want me gone in 2 more.

I guess I am just a selfish *****, but I would rather the game close down entirely and shutter the doors for good with me being the last human coach standing in the game at MSU and everyone else has quit in disgust before I willingly go along with having my team stripped from me. No one stripped anyone from their job to get me promoted. They can wait like I did, or someone can change the system so new coaches don't have to wait like that without it ******* me.

Dac maybe each coach can keep one team? I don't know, I'm just sort of killing a sunday morning and trying to drum up some interest. Remember when threads used to race into double digit pages in hours?

I do, and I've always respected the hell out of you OR, and still do. Maybe when I've had more than 23 seasons at the pinnacle I'd be more receptive.

But fighting for so long to get here, I am not at all interested in any plan to artificially take it away...

I know I can be overbearing and that tends to quell discussion a lot of the time - to that I implore folks - step up and tell me I'm wrong or whatever, I'll probably argue back, but I'll try to to be too big a dick about it...

I love this forum almost as much as the game. I don't expect us to agree all of the time...I suppose I've made my point and don't need to keep going back to the well - I guess that's just my need for the last word ;)

So you want recruiting and Big Six dominance, money, etc, to reflect real life.
But you don't want coaching tenures to reflect real life. You'd have 27 more freakin years at Michigan State.
You've already coached more seasons at MSU than Izzo (21 years) and Jud Heathcote (19 yrs).
If the world populations continue their downward trends, you'll be playing against 3 humans.

when did I say I wanted anything to reflect real life, other than I want credit for the real life time and real life money I invested to get to my 1 A+ baseline school - a school I frankly don't care for IRL, whose primary color (green) is the shittiest color on the planet?

These proposals probably won't be implemented.
But we're an online game community. We're tossing around ideas on how to promote and improve the game.
I think its very shortsighted to just outright dismiss some of these ideas without at least talking things through.
You'd rather shout down people with F-bombs and burn the house down.
But hey, keep yelling louder, and we can keep watching our population numbers crater.

Posted by npb7768 on 2/28/2016 12:11:00 PM (view original):
These proposals probably won't be implemented.
But we're an online game community. We're tossing around ideas on how to promote and improve the game.
I think its very shortsighted to just outright dismiss some of these ideas without at least talking things through.
You'd rather shout down people with F-bombs and burn the house down.
But hey, keep yelling louder, and we can keep watching our population numbers crater.

changed my post - in case you saw something different - since you quoted the post I was referring to you've either decided not to read it fully, lack reading comprehension skills, or just want to call me out for being a dick, which I had already admitted to, in the post you quoted in your reply, so if it's the latter, thanks for the redundancy.