Do some outs in play become double plays?

Posted by bad_luck on 10/15/2017 12:11:00 AM (view original):
Do some outs in play become double plays?

Do strikeouts ever move runners up or cash them in?

Posted by bad_luck on 10/15/2017 12:11:00 AM (view original):
Do some outs in play become double plays?

Oh so now we’re talking about balls in play?

Posted by Jtpsops on 10/15/2017 12:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/15/2017 12:11:00 AM (view original):
Do some outs in play become double plays?

Do strikeouts ever move runners up or cash them in?

Nope.

Posted by d_rock97 on 10/15/2017 12:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/15/2017 12:11:00 AM (view original):
Do some outs in play become double plays?

Oh so now we’re talking about balls in play?

No, we're talking about outs. Double plays are part of that.

You can't talk about the relative value of different types of outs without considering double plays.

Posted by bad_luck on 10/15/2017 12:23:00 AM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 10/15/2017 12:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/15/2017 12:11:00 AM (view original):
Do some outs in play become double plays?

Oh so now we’re talking about balls in play?

No, we're talking about outs. Double plays are part of that.

That’s where I disagree. Outs can become double plays, but then they are no longer an out, in which we can compare.

To me there are 3 different types of outs.

A groundout
A Flyout
A strikeout

1 of these isn’t as valuable as the others

Sure you can. But you won’t because it further proves you’re a *******

You can classify them by their relative value:

1) "good" outs (not actually good but relatively less bad)

2) neutral outs (again, bad, just not as bad as 3)

3) bad outs

Most outs fall into group 2. Strikeouts, every third out of every inning, pop ups, most line outs, all outs leading off an inning, some ground balls, some fly balls, etc.

Some outs fall into 1 - sac flies, "productive" outs, etc.

Some fall into 3, those are double plays.

When looked at on a team by team basis, 1 and 3 tend to balance out, the gain from 1 is wiped out by the bad from 3.

Posted by bad_luck on 10/15/2017 12:37:00 AM (view original):
You can classify them by their relative value:

1) "good" outs (not actually good but relatively less bad)

2) neutral outs (again, bad, just not as bad as 3)

3) bad outs

Most outs fall into group 2. Strikeouts, every third out of every inning, pop ups, most line outs, all outs leading off an inning, some ground balls, some fly balls, etc.

Some outs fall into 1 - sac flies, "productive" outs, etc.

Some fall into 3, those are double plays.

When looked at on a team by team basis, 1 and 3 tend to balance out, the gain from 1 is wiped out by the bad from 3.

Well there you go. Strikeouts aren’t just like any other out. Some outs are better than others. It’s just that people GIDP more than they hit Sac Flies.

I mean, I thought we covered this in one of the thousands of other threads on this topic. Obviously, there are situations where a ground out or fly out is better than a strikeout. And there are others where a ground out is worse than a strikeout.

But when you're looking at a player's season as a whole, how he made his outs really doesn't matter. How often he made them does.

Posted by bad_luck on 10/15/2017 12:45:00 AM (view original):
I mean, I thought we covered this in one of the thousands of other threads on this topic. Obviously, there are situations where a ground out or fly out is better than a strikeout. And there are others where a ground out is worse than a strikeout.

But when you're looking at a player's season as a whole, how he made his outs really doesn't matter. How often he made them does.

Well when there’s 162+ games, the stats make it seem minute. But during the game, it really does matter.

I still think a strikeout is the worst type of out, regardless of situation, but I don’t wanna rehash this thing all over again.

Oh, let's.

Posted by d_rock97 on 10/15/2017 12:58:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/15/2017 12:45:00 AM (view original):
I mean, I thought we covered this in one of the thousands of other threads on this topic. Obviously, there are situations where a ground out or fly out is better than a strikeout. And there are others where a ground out is worse than a strikeout.

But when you're looking at a player's season as a whole, how he made his outs really doesn't matter. How often he made them does.

Well when there’s 162+ games, the stats make it seem minute. But during the game, it really does matter.

I still think a strikeout is the worst type of out, regardless of situation, but I don’t wanna rehash this thing all over again.

I was just about to post something similar.

On the whole, over the course of a season, or seasons, how the out is made is pretty irrelevant. Which is what BL argues. Incessantly.
In a single game, or a single inning, how the outs are made can be pretty important. Which is what everyone else argues. To **** BL off.

Obviously, a triple and three whiffs is worse than a triple, sac fly, two whiffs. I don't think anyone would dispute this. Maybe BL will when he wakes up from sleepy time. Because he wants to earn PSBL.

It's really the difference between someone who watches baseball and someone who pours over stat sheets.

Posted by tecwrg on 10/13/2017 9:28:00 PM (view original):
Hey, PSBL! You watching the Yankees/Astros game tonight?

Did you hear Smoltz talking about how the Astros offense is so much more improved this year because they cut down on strikeouts?

"Productive outs instead of swings and misses" were his exact words.

Will you be contacting him to tell him he's wrong?

Anyways, back to the post that started this thread.

Productive outs are better than strikeouts.

Anybody who understands baseball agrees that this is an obvious truth.

PSBL disagrees. All outs to him are the same.

Conclusion: PSBL does not understand baseball.