ODL 77 Discussion/Commentary Topic

I guess my list didn’t format into tiers. Updated now.
8/20/2020 11:29 PM
D'Antoni is like bottom tier of active coaches for me. I absolutely can't stand the guy's coaching style.
8/20/2020 11:34 PM
Posted by ashamael on 8/20/2020 11:34:00 PM (view original):
D'Antoni is like bottom tier of active coaches for me. I absolutely can't stand the guy's coaching style.
I sell my tickets for the Rockets every time they are in town. But I don’t blame D’Antoni for them being the way they are.
8/20/2020 11:36 PM
Posted by ashamael on 8/20/2020 10:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by pharrop on 8/20/2020 10:53:00 PM (view original):
Hoping you continue to stay on here.
Yeah, I'm going to evaluate bds team and hope that people quote what I say so that he's forced to read it.
ps I'm not actually going to do that.
8/20/2020 11:40 PM
Posted by ashamael on 8/20/2020 11:40:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ashamael on 8/20/2020 10:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by pharrop on 8/20/2020 10:53:00 PM (view original):
Hoping you continue to stay on here.
Yeah, I'm going to evaluate bds team and hope that people quote what I say so that he's forced to read it.
ps I'm not actually going to do that.
You got different evals to finish anyway.
8/20/2020 11:41 PM
Posted by robusk on 8/20/2020 11:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ashamael on 8/20/2020 11:34:00 PM (view original):
D'Antoni is like bottom tier of active coaches for me. I absolutely can't stand the guy's coaching style.
I sell my tickets for the Rockets every time they are in town. But I don’t blame D’Antoni for them being the way they are.
It's not just the Rockets ... it's everywhere he's gone. He's not only never won, he's never even gotten to the Finals. It's not like he's had bad teams, either.

I think Spoelstra, Nurse, and Bud are at the top of the top for me right now. Kerr, Pop, and Rivers just after that. I'm absolutely sure I'm leaving someone out that deserves to be up there. I like Stevens & Stotts, too... and I think Alvin Gentry's pretty underrated (or at least got a raw deal), but I'm not what you would call a coaching expert and wouldn't seriously debate any of the **** I just threw at the wall. Except D'Antoni. That guy can't win.
8/20/2020 11:44 PM
Posted by robusk on 8/20/2020 11:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ashamael on 8/20/2020 11:40:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ashamael on 8/20/2020 10:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by pharrop on 8/20/2020 10:53:00 PM (view original):
Hoping you continue to stay on here.
Yeah, I'm going to evaluate bds team and hope that people quote what I say so that he's forced to read it.
ps I'm not actually going to do that.
You got different evals to finish anyway.
Yeah, not sure why I volunteered to do that. I'm at the point where I'm still tweaking my teams to get the rotations the best they can be and won't stop doing that to go say some words about other people's teams.
8/20/2020 11:44 PM
All right.

I will cease-and-desist. If that satisfies everyone, great. If not, well, I'm sorry.

I would appreciate it if no one said anything that had the potential to come off as disrespectful, as I spend a lot of time here and have the potential to get agitated. That is my one and only request, and I hope that it is followed from now on. I will do the same, whether that gesture is reciprocated or not.

Thank you.
8/20/2020 11:54 PM (edited)
Posted by ashamael on 8/20/2020 11:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by robusk on 8/20/2020 11:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ashamael on 8/20/2020 11:40:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ashamael on 8/20/2020 10:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by pharrop on 8/20/2020 10:53:00 PM (view original):
Hoping you continue to stay on here.
Yeah, I'm going to evaluate bds team and hope that people quote what I say so that he's forced to read it.
ps I'm not actually going to do that.
You got different evals to finish anyway.
Yeah, not sure why I volunteered to do that. I'm at the point where I'm still tweaking my teams to get the rotations the best they can be and won't stop doing that to go say some words about other people's teams.
I somehow ended up with exactly 9 men getting all the minutes on all 5 teams.
8/20/2020 11:52 PM
I am watching the Blazers Lakers game on delay because I have been working too much and wanted to spend time with my family this afternoon.

Who on earth do you root for in a Whiteside - Dwight feud? It’s like the Spider-Man meme.
8/20/2020 11:58 PM
It is Whiteside. By a mile. Bouts of apathy over intentional harm.
8/21/2020 12:23 AM
Ok, he asked...scroll by if you are not interested:

Top Tier
Nick Nurse – Innovative, not afraid to take chances, his guys play really hard for him which speaks to culture, transition D is outstanding, plays his best players more
Erik Spoelstra – The culture they have developed is at elite level in professional sports. I know some of that comes from Pat Riley but Spo seems to get the most out of whomever he has. I think they will be a tough out if they see MIL in the playoffs. Love the zone and love his ingenuity on offense
Steve Kerr – Their culture is to be admired. How he included remnants of the Triangle Offense is innovative in itself.
Tier 2
Rick Carlisle – offensive wizard. I would like to see better D but one has to work with what he has
Mike D’Antoni – Started the trend toward playing fast. Not his fault that Horry hip checked Nash precipitating the suspensions and Chris Paul’s hamstring gave out when they had the Dubs on the ropes. His brother provide the best answer ever to a media question here at 1:18 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG6fMCmp7T0) and insight into their philosophy. He gets criticized for not coaching when sometimes coaching is not coaching
Brad Stevens – X and O wizard especially special situations. Russilo/Lawson podcast provided insight into his staff development
Gregg Popovich – King of culture development
Tier 3
Steve Clifford – A Woj podcast he did is something I listen to every November.
Nate McMillan - defense minded in an offense league, admirable
Doc Rivers – whining at officials turns me off…should be higher
Mike Budenholzer
Terry Stotts
Quinn Snyder
Billy Donovan – seeing his style come out more with CP3
Dwayne Casey
Monty Williams – Could jump up…what he did with the bubble Suns has people watching...got railroaded in N.O.
Tier 4
Brett Brown – want him to do well but might be end of line
Taylor Jenkins – promising
Kenny Atkinson – will bounce back
Thibs – defensive guru…see if he changes other stuff
Scott Brooks
Alvin Gentry
Frank Vogel
Tier 5 (not enough info for me to opine but one has to be a really good coach to get one of the jobs)
Mike Malone
Lloyd Pierce
Luke Walton
James Borrego
Ryan Saunders
J.B. Bickerstaff

Here is the rationale behind my rankings:
  1. Really hard for me to be critical of coaches. The jobs are hard and so much could be happening that we just don’t know about
  2. When I was young and stupid I thought it was about X’s and O’s but have grown to understand it is about connections and culture
  3. I don’t believe in the no rings no good argument whether it is for Barkley or D’Antoni
  4. I saw Hubie Brown at a clinic say, “anyone can win with talent, show me what you can do when you don’t have good players”, so I tried to be subjective in the evaluations
  5. I don’t get to see every team play enough to make an informed opinion on every coach. I do try to read a lot, watch clinics, and listen to podcasts to gain information on many coaches
  6. Something really hard to coach is transition defense so I really look at that when ranking coaches
  7. I coached at a small school where most of my players played football (it is Western PA) and some Spring sport so I kept things simple. Some criticized me for having my teams play “street ball” (their words not mine) but we didn’t have the time to put in some pattern offense. We took the first best shot (within our “what is a good shot” framework) we could get. I tried to teach them to play basketball.

8/21/2020 12:00 PM
Great list pharrop. Thanks for sharing. You and Ben both know way more than me so I am curious why you both have Mike Malone so low? I don't think he is great or anything. I am just not sure what about him makes him considered worse than similar coaches like Clifford, Vogel, Gentry, Brown, Thibs at this point.

Also, one quibble I would make: we seem to have determined as a society that we can't criticize coaches for some reason. I don't understand it. I can tune into tons of NBA games and the analysts are just railroading some player for some mistake he made like missing a cutter or making a bad read or something. That same analyst will crucify a ref for making a bad call. But yet he will go out of his way to say we shouldn't criticize coaches. Yes, it is a very hard job. But you know what? So is being an NBA player.

Certainly someone of my stature should stfu about coaches. But the idea that they are shielded from criticism sure is a weird one to me that I suspect is rooted in something more nefarious than I care to explore.
8/21/2020 1:03 PM
I criticize coaches all the time, especially Timberwolves coaches. Mike Malone is fine. I have him in a tier of coaches who I think do a fine job and should definitely be coaching an NBA team. I just don’t think he does anything more than fine.
8/21/2020 1:42 PM
Now that I can see your tiers, I agree with your list a lot more ben. I have no opinion on Mike Miller.
8/21/2020 1:49 PM
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