Posted by shoe3 on 12/6/2020 8:19:00 PM (view original):
“But do we really feel like anybody would quit because they lost their job at a school?” Quit the game outright? Some will. Some won’t (if bribed with a free season, or something). Drop the world? That will absolutely happen, and it’s foolish to think it wouldn’t. But even if it didn’t, it’s still kind of beside the point. Replacing customers who pay near full price with customers who do not, when there is no compelling reason (ie, job scarcity) to do so will definitely cost money, one way or another.

Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Foolish.

Posted by shoe3 on 12/6/2020 8:19:00 PM (view original):
“But do we really feel like anybody would quit because they lost their job at a school?” Quit the game outright? Some will. Some won’t (if bribed with a free season, or something). Drop the world? That will absolutely happen, and it’s foolish to think it wouldn’t. But even if it didn’t, it’s still kind of beside the point. Replacing customers who pay near full price with customers who do not, when there is no compelling reason (ie, job scarcity) to do so will definitely cost money, one way or another.

Shoe, you do realize that if the user took a different job within the world, the P&L for the world remains exactly the same, right? WIS hands out the same amount of credits every season, having a better coach in a better job doesn’t hurt P&L unless the other coach quits. They may quit, and that is a fair argument, but the current argument of “replacing customers who pay near full price with customers who do not” does not make sense.

The thing that works in this games’ favor (from a business standpoint) is that you every user comes in at basically 0 marginal cost. If they end up winning and getting season credits, its a 0-sum game, they are taking credits away from someone else.

My guess is that Adam, our new product manager friend, is probably looking at the lifetime value of a WIS customer in terms of # of seasons purchased. I’d wager the lifetime value of a HD customer is probably much higher than the cost to acquire that customer, making HD a profitable game. If Adam can convince them to pump a little $ into marketing the product (and cross-selling to other HD products), the # of users (and the WIS revenue) will ramp up and we’ll see fuller worlds and a more robust budget to improve the game.

“Shoe, you do realize that if the user took a different job within the world, the P&L for the world remains exactly the same, right?”

Not remotely. First, as discussed, I thinks that’s a foolish assumption, that all, most, or even many users removed from a team they spent years and likely hundreds of dollars to qualify for in the first place would take a different job within the world at full price, without some kind of incentive. Even those that do, are they moving to a less competitive D2 or D3? It actually isn’t true that WIS “hands out the same amount of credits every season;” that depends entirely on how many sims make the NT, and how deep they go. And that is largely a function of how full and competitive the worlds are. Which is *precisely why* increasing firings may make some sense when jobs are more scarce. But as it stands right now, it’s nonsense.

It actually isn’t true that WIS “hands out the same amount of credits every season;” that depends entirely on how many sims make the NT, and how deep they go.

There was one time I left a school, and the next season the sim went to the National Championship game. I could imagine the WIS team standing around reenacting the scene from Austin Powers when all the bad guys start the evil laugh and it goes on for too long until its awkward.

Shoe I don't understand the minds of every coach here, but I find it hard to believe that if someone plays long enough to get to a top notch school, and made the trudge thru all the up and down seasons they had along the way, finds some coaching friends along the way, and plays for maybe 2 real life years on their way to the top....... then loses their job after being terrible, and KNOWING they were obviously terrible at that location, that they'd quit the game all together.

I'm not THAT connected to any one school. I'm sure there's some coaches that are (could you imagine if WifS took Dickinson away from mfnmyers!). But I think MOST coaches play for "the game". And not "the team".

I think the disconnect here is that (under the guidelines I was thinking) to be fired you either have to have ghosted or not give a **** anymore. Basically at that point firing is euthanasia. I seriously doubt any coach good enough to actually get an A+ job is going to turn into a total idiot and forget how to play the game.

i am not a big fan of firings, i mean the bar is *so* low that i definitely wouldn't object much to raising it a little, especially if that raise only affects perhaps a- and up baseline schools. but in general i feel like the vast majority of the coaches who get those jobs won't end up triggering firing conditions unless they are made realistic. i think the kind of marginal changes most people suggest would only dislodge a couple coaches here and there, and therefore isn't worth the effort to change.

it could be interesting if there was a cut throat version of HD where firing were realistic, coaches could get fired with regular s16/e8 appearances at the a+ schools for not winning championships and such. i think that is probably counter to the current HD culture where conferences are one of the main organizational units of the community or whatever, but i think it could be a cool thing to try. i personally think they could find interest in variations on current models, especially if they run worlds for a limited amount of time, maybe 50-60 seasons, allowing the rules to be more dynamic and experimental (due to their non-universal nature). its probably a bunch of work for them to support variations in world rules but i think it would be pretty cool if they did.

That would be interesting! But yes I wasn't thinking that aggressive. Just the few coaches here and there.

I have small dreams. I dream of a day when a team has the ball and 30 seconds elapses and the horn blows and the referee signals a time clock violation. Every time a defensive team fouls with 1 second on the clock (and it happens several times in an average game) it makes me just a little angry. That is a small change, easily accomplished which would be a sign of faith that these admins are not just clones of the last admin who abandoned HD altogether after screwing it up with some really ****-eyed changes to recruiting.

Posted by kobo on 12/9/2020 8:18:00 PM (view original):
I have small dreams. I dream of a day when a team has the ball and 30 seconds elapses and the horn blows and the referee signals a time clock violation. Every time a defensive team fouls with 1 second on the clock (and it happens several times in an average game) it makes me just a little angry. That is a small change, easily accomplished which would be a sign of faith that these admins are not just clones of the last admin who abandoned HD altogether after screwing it up with some really ****-eyed changes to recruiting.

agreed, this one is pretty legit

I think seble is okay with getting rid of AFK coaches. I once asked him to remove a coach that obviously wasn't there, and he did (Notre Dame in Allen). Although it would be nice if these firings were automatic. It's only fair to the other coaches in the conference. A sim coach might not be much better but at least there's a chance of a human coach taking the job.

Posted by mullycj on 12/9/2020 5:01:00 PM (view original):
I think the disconnect here is that (under the guidelines I was thinking) to be fired you either have to have ghosted or not give a **** anymore. Basically at that point firing is euthanasia. I seriously doubt any coach good enough to actually get an A+ job is going to turn into a total idiot and forget how to play the game.

I've actually seen a few teams like that lately. Duke in Allen was one of them. I think the prior coach just gave up on the game but had enough credits to submarine Duke for several seasons. Thankfully a quality coach took over (wolfman).

My point is that it probably happens more often than most would think (I know of one big east school in both of my main worlds is that under-coached). It might actually help user retention to know that these types of jobs are more available. Hope is an unbelievable tool.

I play this game for the game but , also play it to get to my "dream school" which would probably be hard enough to do with firings, but without it's almost impossible. I wouldn't have a problem if the coach at my dream school was just killing it in a world I'm in (making the tournament almost every year) but what if the coach hasn't even sniffed the tournament over 20 seasons which can be a bit frustrating for the fan in me. Under the current settings every contract is a lifetime contract, and the only way to lose a job is to be a bonehead and forget to renew (I did this yesterday btw lol). I do enjoy this game quite a bit, but implementing firings would be the biggest change I would want, (Maybe 5 straight seasons not making the tournament for Power 6 conferences

Posted by garbage29 on 12/11/2020 1:16:00 PM (view original):
I play this game for the game but , also play it to get to my "dream school" which would probably be hard enough to do with firings, but without it's almost impossible. I wouldn't have a problem if the coach at my dream school was just killing it in a world I'm in (making the tournament almost every year) but what if the coach hasn't even sniffed the tournament over 20 seasons which can be a bit frustrating for the fan in me. Under the current settings every contract is a lifetime contract, and the only way to lose a job is to be a bonehead and forget to renew (I did this yesterday btw lol). I do enjoy this game quite a bit, but implementing firings would be the biggest change I would want, (Maybe 5 straight seasons not making the tournament for Power 6 conferences

I enjoyed that you said the only way to lose a job is to be a bonehead and forget to renew, and then laughed at yourself for doing it! We need more of that here