you didnt see it cause it was here

https://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=526754

and - at least as to HD - a bunch of folks think it wasnt smart to change the treatment of nonqualifiers without some advance word - changed how kids currently recruited or just signed will view promises. My take - several people thought - this should have been announced a couple months ahead so all worlds could cycle thru a season before the new rule applies.

I must have missed this update. I was REALLY confused earlier when setting my lineup why a guy I recruited in Phelan season 153, has a promised start minutes on him in season 154.

Not a huge deal as he was gonna start anyway. But I was still very confused nonetheless.

Posted by topdogggbm on 5/4/2021 5:21:00 AM (view original):
Depends on perspective. I see the other view. Why does it make sense to be able to offer 25 min and a start to a player that can't even play one minute?

Because if he becomes eligible you would have to honor those promises. Tread carefully.

Don't see that this was a problem.

Lotta trouble caused for no real need.

Posted by phalla on 5/11/2021 10:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 5/4/2021 5:21:00 AM (view original):
Depends on perspective. I see the other view. Why does it make sense to be able to offer 25 min and a start to a player that can't even play one minute?

Because if he becomes eligible you would have to honor those promises. Tread carefully.

Don't see that this was a problem.

Lotta trouble caused for no real need.

Well enough people viewed it as a point of interest to make changes, or it wouldn't have happened. I just feel there's some that see it as an issue, and some that don't.

But trouble caused? Like what? That coaches that offered promises and didn't expect to have to honor them, now have to honor them? That's the ideal behind promising minutes anyways! I don't see that as trouble at all. I'm blown away at the amount of attention this has gotten. If the game was set up this way in the past, no one would blink an eye at this issue. Again, it's all perspective.

Posted by topdogggbm on 5/14/2021 7:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by phalla on 5/11/2021 10:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 5/4/2021 5:21:00 AM (view original):
Depends on perspective. I see the other view. Why does it make sense to be able to offer 25 min and a start to a player that can't even play one minute?

Because if he becomes eligible you would have to honor those promises. Tread carefully.

Don't see that this was a problem.

Lotta trouble caused for no real need.

Well enough people viewed it as a point of interest to make changes, or it wouldn't have happened. I just feel there's some that see it as an issue, and some that don't.

But trouble caused? Like what? That coaches that offered promises and didn't expect to have to honor them, now have to honor them? That's the ideal behind promising minutes anyways! I don't see that as trouble at all. I'm blown away at the amount of attention this has gotten. If the game was set up this way in the past, no one would blink an eye at this issue. Again, it's all perspective.

How many people were enough to decide that this change needed to be made?

Posted by cedarberry on 5/14/2021 7:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 5/14/2021 7:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by phalla on 5/11/2021 10:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 5/4/2021 5:21:00 AM (view original):
Depends on perspective. I see the other view. Why does it make sense to be able to offer 25 min and a start to a player that can't even play one minute?

Because if he becomes eligible you would have to honor those promises. Tread carefully.

Don't see that this was a problem.

Lotta trouble caused for no real need.

Well enough people viewed it as a point of interest to make changes, or it wouldn't have happened. I just feel there's some that see it as an issue, and some that don't.

But trouble caused? Like what? That coaches that offered promises and didn't expect to have to honor them, now have to honor them? That's the ideal behind promising minutes anyways! I don't see that as trouble at all. I'm blown away at the amount of attention this has gotten. If the game was set up this way in the past, no one would blink an eye at this issue. Again, it's all perspective.

How many people were enough to decide that this change needed to be made?

No clue. I was just being vague. Adam is very active in the community, and I'm sure he listens to the ideas of everyone collectively, and makes his own judgement on what direction he wants to go with things.

I have not seen any indication that admin sought input from users on this change - and I would be shocked if any broad solicitation of input had led to some responses urging that such a change be made after a warning that it was coming that allowed one season to cycle through in all worlds

I look at the forums reasonably frequently and saw no discussion of such a possible change - are we just imagining that it happened?

Posted by fd343ny on 5/14/2021 9:54:00 PM (view original):
I have not seen any indication that admin sought input from users on this change - and I would be shocked if any broad solicitation of input had led to some responses urging that such a change be made after a warning that it was coming that allowed one season to cycle through in all worlds

I look at the forums reasonably frequently and saw no discussion of such a possible change - are we just imagining that it happened?

i know adam had some private conversations with folks, i was not one of them, about the subject. i am not aware of substantial public conversation but it mighta come up with a few people on a discord once where adam jumped in, something along those lines. i didn't know the change was coming but at least knew it had been discussed.

i would definitely like to see a bit wider discussion on this kinda stuff, i totally agree the announcing it before suddenly retroactively applying promises seems super obvious, and i agree it would have likely been raised.

my 2 cents on the situation is there are some sharp folks giving the new WIS guys input, but there's also some voices who are perhaps folks i would consider hand-wringers, whose voices are perhaps being amplified by their higher level of activity on the discord medium.

Posted by fd343ny on 5/14/2021 9:54:00 PM (view original):
I have not seen any indication that admin sought input from users on this change - and I would be shocked if any broad solicitation of input had led to some responses urging that such a change be made after a warning that it was coming that allowed one season to cycle through in all worlds

I look at the forums reasonably frequently and saw no discussion of such a possible change - are we just imagining that it happened?

Discord.

Unfortunately, forums aren't the hot spot anymore.

Posted by gillispie on 5/14/2021 10:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by fd343ny on 5/14/2021 9:54:00 PM (view original):
I have not seen any indication that admin sought input from users on this change - and I would be shocked if any broad solicitation of input had led to some responses urging that such a change be made after a warning that it was coming that allowed one season to cycle through in all worlds

I look at the forums reasonably frequently and saw no discussion of such a possible change - are we just imagining that it happened?

i know adam had some private conversations with folks, i was not one of them, about the subject. i am not aware of substantial public conversation but it mighta come up with a few people on a discord once where adam jumped in, something along those lines. i didn't know the change was coming but at least knew it had been discussed.

i would definitely like to see a bit wider discussion on this kinda stuff, i totally agree the announcing it before suddenly retroactively applying promises seems super obvious, and i agree it would have likely been raised.

my 2 cents on the situation is there are some sharp folks giving the new WIS guys input, but there's also some voices who are perhaps folks i would consider hand-wringers, whose voices are perhaps being amplified by their higher level of activity on the discord medium.

"my 2 cents on the situation is there are some sharp folks giving the new WIS guys input, but there's also some voices who are perhaps folks i would consider hand-wringers, whose voices are perhaps being amplified by their higher level of activity on the discord medium"

Yes. This. I'm SURE this is accurate. Although I haven't been in discord in months now so I'm not sure what goes on there. But I do know Adam works hard to talk with lots of folks there and invests time in the community.

So admin changed the rules based on input gleaned from discord without seeking input in the games own forums? and before admin made a major push (the in your face advert) to direct users to discord? Really bad customer service - and an approach doomed to "hear" a handful of voices rather than the great bulk of users who surely are not on discord. Were not then on discord.

in other words - it would be stupid for admin to do that - guess thats the conclusion. Unfortunate. a stupid action.

let me suggest that admin should post prominent pinned notices on the forums that the forums are NOT the primary place for discussion of WIS games - and direct its customers to discord.

I'm 100% with you regarding the fact that the forums should be priority uno. And I'm not in the discord any longer. But I'd guess that MANY more coaches are reading discord than the forums these days. There's a ton of coaches there. And it's rapid communication compared to here in the forums.

To be clear, again, I believe the forums should be top priority always. But if you're not in discord, you'd be surprised by the amount of users there, and the amount of activity that goes on there now. It blew up and is big now

Discord ... seems to be a hangout for users with too much time on their hands ... and not a true representation of the games population.

I'm not one to have a say in what others do with their time. If you love the game, you love the game. Nothing wrong with that. But I agree it's not a representation of the games population. But neither is the forums unfortunately. There's way more people reading the discord than the forums now days

(And I signed back up for discord now. Too much negative energy in the air)

Posted by mamxet on 5/15/2021 4:01:00 AM (view original):
So admin changed the rules based on input gleaned from discord without seeking input in the games own forums? and before admin made a major push (the in your face advert) to direct users to discord? Really bad customer service - and an approach doomed to "hear" a handful of voices rather than the great bulk of users who surely are not on discord. Were not then on discord.

in other words - it would be stupid for admin to do that - guess thats the conclusion. Unfortunate. a stupid action.

let me suggest that admin should post prominent pinned notices on the forums that the forums are NOT the primary place for discussion of WIS games - and direct its customers to discord.

definitely more users on the discord than active in the forums