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Cooperstown over haul Topic

bad_luck

Posts: 21761 (0)

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Posted by strikeout26 on 12/25/2018 9:14:00 AM (view original):
Yeah, that was sarcasm directed at BL about his everyone roided comment.

And I don’t actually think everyone roided, but I’m not giving anyone a pass. No way we can say with any certainty that Pedro didn’t use.

12/25/2018 11:03 AM

bagchucker

Posts: 18640 (0)

Hall of Famer

415 1 1 2 12

Prospect

Steroid Suspensions in 2005 (Includes ALL Performance Enhancing Drug Suspensions) Major League Baseball Steroid Suspensions Appear In Chronological Order
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
1.		Alex Sanchez	04-03-2005	Tampa Bay Devil Rays⁽¹⁾	AL⁽¹⁾	OF⁽¹⁾	10 Day Suspension
2.		Jorge Piedra	04-11-2005	Colorado Rockies⁽¹⁾	NL⁽¹⁾	OF⁽²⁾	10 Day Suspension
3.		Agustin Montero^(a)	04-20-2005	Texas Rangers⁽¹⁾	AL⁽²⁾	P⁽¹⁾	10 Day Suspension
4.		Jamal Strong	04-26-2005	Seattle Mariners⁽¹⁾	AL⁽³⁾	OF⁽³⁾	10 Day Suspension
5.		Juan Rincon	05-02-2005	Minnesota Twins⁽¹⁾	AL⁽⁴⁾	P⁽²⁾	10 Day Suspension
6.		Rafael Betancourt	07-08-2005	Cleveland Indians⁽¹⁾	AL⁽⁵⁾	P⁽³⁾	10 Day Suspension
7.		Rafael Palmeiro	08-01-2005	Baltimore Orioles⁽¹⁾	AL⁽⁶⁾	1B⁽¹⁾	10 Day Suspension
8.		Ryan Franklin	08-02-2005	Seattle Mariners⁽²⁾	AL⁽⁷⁾	P⁽⁴⁾	10 Day Suspension
9.		Mike Morse	09-07-2005	Seattle Mariners⁽³⁾	AL⁽⁸⁾	SS⁽¹⁾	10 Day Suspension
10.		Carlos Almanzar	10-04-2005	Texas Rangers⁽²⁾	AL⁽⁹⁾	P⁽⁴⁾	10 Day Suspension
11.		Felix Heredia	10-18-2005	New York Mets⁽¹⁾	NL⁽²⁾	P⁽⁵⁾	10 Day Suspension
12.		Matt Lawton	11-02-2005	New York Yankees⁽¹⁾	AL⁽¹⁰⁾	OF⁽⁴⁾	10 Day Suspension
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
Steroid Suspensions in 2006 (Includes ALL Performance Enhancing Drug Suspensions) Major League Baseball Steroid Suspensions Appear In Chronological Order
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
1.		Yusaku Iriki ^(b)	04-28-2006	New York Mets⁽¹⁾	NL⁽¹⁾	P⁽¹⁾	50 Game Suspension
2.		Jason Grimsley	06-12-2006	Arizona Diamondbacks⁽¹⁾	NL⁽²⁾	P⁽²⁾	50 Game Suspension
3.		Guillermo Mota	11-01-2006	New York Mets⁽²⁾	NL⁽³⁾	P⁽³⁾	50 Game Suspension
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
Steroid Suspensions in 2007 (Includes ALL Performance Enhancing Drug Suspensions) Major League Baseball Steroid Suspensions Appear In Chronological Order
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
1.		Juan Salas	05-07-2007	Tampa Bay Devil Rays⁽¹⁾	AL⁽¹⁾	P⁽¹⁾	50 Game Suspension
2.		Neifi Perez	07-06-2007	Detroit Tigers⁽¹⁾	AL⁽²⁾	SS⁽¹⁾	25 Game Suspension
3.		Neifi Perez	08-03-2007	Detroit Tigers⁽²⁾	AL⁽³⁾	SS⁽²⁾	80 Game Suspension
4.		Ryan Jorgenson	09-07-2007	Cincinnati Reds⁽¹⁾	NL⁽¹⁾	C⁽¹⁾	25 Game Suspension
5.	--	Mike Cameron^(c)	10-31-2007	San Diego Padres⁽¹⁾	NL⁽²⁾	OF⁽¹⁾	25 Game Suspension
6.		Dan Serafini	11-27-2007	Colorado Rockies⁽¹⁾	NL⁽³⁾	P⁽²⁾	50 Game Suspension
7.		Jose Guillen	12-06-2007	Kansas City Royals⁽¹⁾	AL⁽³⁾	OF⁽²⁾	15 Game Suspension
8.		Jay Gibbons	12-06-2007	Baltimore Orioles⁽¹⁾	AL⁽⁴⁾	OF⁽³⁾	15 Game Suspension
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
Steroid Suspensions in 2008 (Includes ALL Performance Enhancing Drug Suspensions) Major League Baseball Steroid Suspensions Appear In Chronological Order
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
1.		Eliezer Alfonzo	04-30-2008	San Francisco Giants⁽¹⁾	NL⁽¹⁾	C⁽¹⁾	50 Game Suspension
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
Steroid Suspensions in 2009 (Includes ALL Performance Enhancing Drug Suspensions) Major League Baseball Steroid Suspensions Appear In Chronological Order
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
1.		Sergio Mitre	01-06-2009	New York Yankees⁽¹⁾	AL⁽¹⁾	P⁽¹⁾	50 Game Suspension
2.		J.C. Romero	01-06-2009	Philadelphia Phillies⁽¹⁾	NL⁽¹⁾	P⁽²⁾	50 Game Suspension
3.		Manny Ramirez	05-07-2009	Los Angeles Dodgers⁽¹⁾	NL⁽²⁾	OF⁽¹⁾	50 Game Suspension
4.		Pablo Ozuna	06-11-2009	Philadelphia Phillies⁽²⁾	NL⁽³⁾	IF⁽¹⁾	50 Game Suspension
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
Steroid Suspensions in 2010 (Includes ALL Performance Enhancing Drug Suspensions) Major League Baseball Steroid Suspensions Appear In Chronological Order
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
1.		Edinson Volquez	04-20-2010	Cincinnati Reds⁽¹⁾	NL⁽¹⁾	P⁽¹⁾	50 Game Suspension
2.		Ronny Paulino	08-20-2010	Florida Marlins⁽¹⁾	NL⁽²⁾	C⁽¹⁾	50 Game Suspension
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
Steroid Suspensions in 2011 (Includes ALL Performance Enhancing Drug Suspensions) Major League Baseball Steroid Suspensions Appear In Chronological Order
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
1.		Manny Ramirez^(d)	04-08-2011	Tampa Bay Rays⁽¹⁾	AL⁽¹⁾	OF⁽¹⁾	100 Game Suspension
2.		Mike Jacobs^(e)	08-18-2011	Colorado Rockies⁽¹⁾	NL⁽¹⁾	1B⁽¹⁾	50 Game Suspension
Steroid Suspensions in 2012 (Includes ALL Performance Enhancing Drug Suspensions) Major League Baseball Steroid Suspensions Appear In Chronological Order
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
1.		Guillermo Mota	05-07-2012	San Francisco Giants⁽¹⁾	NL⁽¹⁾	P⁽¹⁾	100 Game Suspension
2.		Freddy Galvis	06-19-2012	Philadelphia Phillies⁽¹⁾	NL⁽²⁾	IF⁽¹⁾	50 Game Suspension
3.		Marlon Byrd	06-25-2012	Free Agent⁽¹⁾	n/a	OF⁽¹⁾	50 Game Suspension
4.		Melky Cabrera	08-15-2012	San Francisco Giants⁽²⁾	NL⁽³⁾	OF⁽²⁾	50 Game Suspension
5.		Bartolo Colon	08-22-2012	Oakland Athletics⁽¹⁾	AL⁽¹⁾	P⁽²⁾	50 Game Suspension
6.		Yasmani Grandal	11-07-2012	San Diego Padres⁽¹⁾	NL⁽⁴⁾	C⁽¹⁾	50 Game Suspension
Steroid Suspensions in 2013 (Includes ALL Performance Enhancing Drug Suspensions) Major League Baseball Steroid Suspensions Appear In Chronological Order
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
1.		Ryan Braun	07-22-2013	Milwaukee Brewers⁽¹⁾	NL⁽¹⁾	OF⁽¹⁾	"Remainder of Season"
2.		Antonio Bastardo	08-05-2013	Philadelphia Phillies⁽¹⁾	NL⁽²⁾	P⁽¹⁾	50 Game Suspension
3.		Everth Cabrera	08-05-2013	San Diego Padres⁽¹⁾	NL⁽³⁾	SS⁽¹⁾	50 Game Suspension
4.		Francisco Cervelli	08-05-2013	New York Yankees⁽¹⁾	AL⁽¹⁾	C⁽¹⁾	50 Game Suspension
5.		Nelson Cruz	08-05-2013	Texas Rangers⁽¹⁾	AL⁽²⁾	OF⁽²⁾	50 Game Suspension
6.		Fautino De Los Santos	08-05-2013	San Diego Padres⁽²⁾	NL⁽⁴⁾	P⁽²⁾	50 Game Suspension
7.		Sergio Escalona	08-05-2013	Houston Astros⁽¹⁾	AL⁽³⁾	P⁽³⁾	50 Game Suspension
8.		Fernando Martinez	08-05-2013	New York Yankees⁽²⁾	AL⁽⁴⁾	OF⁽³⁾	50 Game Suspension
9.		Jesus Montero	08-05-2013	Seattle Mariners⁽¹⁾	AL⁽⁵⁾	C⁽²⁾	50 Game Suspension
10.		Jordan Norberto	08-05-2013	Free Agent⁽¹⁾	n/a	P⁽⁴⁾	50 Game Suspension
11.		Jhonny Peralta	08-05-2013	Detroit Tigers⁽¹⁾	AL⁽⁶⁾	SS⁽²⁾	50 Game Suspension
12.		Alex Rodriguez	08-05-2013	New York Yankees⁽³⁾	AL⁽⁷⁾	3B⁽¹⁾	211 Game Suspension
13.		Jordany Valdespin	08-05-2013	New York Mets⁽¹⁾	NL⁽⁵⁾	IF/OF⁽¹⁾	50 Game Suspension
14.		Miguel Tejada	08-17-2013	Kansas City Royals⁽¹⁾	AL⁽⁸⁾	3B⁽²⁾	105 Game Suspension
15.	--	Troy Patton	12-20-2013	Baltimore Orioles⁽¹⁾	AL⁽⁹⁾	P⁽⁵⁾	25 Game Suspension
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
Steroid Suspensions in 2014 (Includes ALL Performance Enhancing Drug Suspensions) Major League Baseball Steroid Suspensions Appear In Chronological Order
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
1.		Alex Colome	03-24-2014	Tampa Bay Rays⁽¹⁾	AL⁽¹⁾	P⁽¹⁾	50 Game Suspension
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
Steroid Suspensions in 2015 (Includes ALL Performance Enhancing Drug Suspensions) In Chronological Order
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
1.		David Rollins	03-27-2015	Seattle Mariners⁽¹⁾	AL⁽¹⁾	P⁽¹⁾	80 Game Suspension
2.		Ervin Santana	04-03-2015	Minnesota Twins⁽¹⁾	AL⁽²⁾	P⁽²⁾	80 Game Suspension
3.		Jenrry Mejia	04-11-2015	New York Mets⁽¹⁾	NL⁽¹⁾	P⁽³⁾	80 Game Suspension
4.		Andrew McKirahan	04-20-2015	Atlanta Braves⁽¹⁾	NL⁽²⁾	P⁽⁴⁾	80 Game Suspension
5.		Jenrry Mejia	07-28-2015	New York Mets⁽²⁾	NL⁽³⁾	P⁽⁵⁾	162 Game Suspension
6.		Cody Stanley	09-12-2015	St. Louis Cardinals⁽¹⁾	NL⁽⁴⁾	C⁽¹⁾	80 Game Suspension
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
Steroid Suspensions in 2016 (Includes ALL Performance Enhancing Drug Suspensions) Major League Baseball Steroid Suspensions Appear In Chronological Order
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
1.		Jenrry Mejia	02-12-2016	New York Mets⁽¹⁾	NL⁽¹⁾	P⁽¹⁾	Permanent Suspension
2.		Abraham Almonte	02-26-2016	Cleveland Indians⁽¹⁾	AL⁽¹⁾	OF⁽¹⁾	80 Game Suspension
3.		Daniel Stumpf	04-14-2016	Philadelphia Phillies⁽¹⁾	NL⁽²⁾	P⁽²⁾	80 Game Suspension
4.		Chris Colabello	04-22-2016	Toronto Blue Jays⁽¹⁾	AL⁽²⁾	1B⁽¹⁾	80 Game Suspension
5.	--	Dee Gordon	04-29-2016	Miami Marlins⁽¹⁾	NL⁽³⁾	2B⁽¹⁾	80 Game Suspension
6.		Josh Ravin	05-02-2016	Los Angeles Dodgers⁽¹⁾	NL⁽⁴⁾	P⁽³⁾	80 Game Suspension
7.		Raul Mondesi	05-10-2016	Kansas City Royals⁽¹⁾	AL⁽³⁾	SS⁽¹⁾	50 Game Suspension
8.		Marlon Byrd	06-01-2016	Cleveland Indians⁽²⁾	AL⁽⁴⁾	OF⁽²⁾	162 Game Suspension
9.		Alec Asher	06-16-2016	Philadelphia Phillies⁽²⁾	NL⁽⁵⁾	P⁽⁴⁾	162 Game Suspension
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
Steroid Suspensions in 2017 (Includes ALL Performance Enhancing Drug Suspensions) Major League Baseball Steroid Suspensions Appear In Chronological Order
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
1.		Starling Marte	04-18-2017	Pittsburgh Pirates⁽¹⁾	NL⁽¹⁾	OF⁽¹⁾	80 Game Suspension
2.		David Paulino	07-01-2017	Houston Astros⁽¹⁾	NL⁽²⁾	P⁽¹⁾	80 Game Suspension
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
Steroid Suspensions in 2018 (Includes ALL Performance Enhancing Drug Suspensions) Major League Baseball Steroid Suspensions Appear In Chronological Order
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
1.		Raudy Read	02-07-2018	Washington Nationals⁽¹⁾	NL⁽¹⁾	C⁽¹⁾	80 Game Suspension
2.		Jorge Bonifacio	03-11-2018	Kansas City Royals⁽¹⁾	AL⁽¹⁾	OF⁽¹⁾	80 Game Suspension
3.		Jorge Polanco	03-18-2018	Minnesota Twins⁽¹⁾	AL⁽²⁾	SS⁽¹⁾	80 Game Suspension
4.		Robinson Cano	05-15-2018	Seattle Mariners⁽¹⁾	AL⁽³⁾	2B⁽¹⁾	80 Game Suspension
5.	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
#	P.R.	Player Name	Date	Team^(Quantity)	Lg^(Qty)	Pos^(Qty)	Suspension Type
Major League Baseball Steroid Suspensions \| Bold Print=Named in Mitchell Report

12/25/2018 11:05 AM

strikeout26

Posts: 6524 (0)

Hall of Famer

128 1 47

Prospect

Posted by bad_luck on 12/25/2018 11:02:00 AM (view original):
Posted by strikeout26 on 12/24/2018 7:56:00 PM (view original):
Don't forget that Maddux was throwing 94-96 in his late thirties.
You act like the only people using steroids were huge home run hitters and pitchers with high velocity and ignore the high percentage of players caught who were small, speedy middle infielders and slim relief pitchers.

I've coached and played with plenty of players who used steroids and they all threw harder than they should have.

12/25/2018 11:21 AM

bad_luck

Posts: 21761 (0)

Hall of Famer

48 1 10

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Posted by strikeout26 on 12/25/2018 11:21:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/25/2018 11:02:00 AM (view original):
Posted by strikeout26 on 12/24/2018 7:56:00 PM (view original):
Don't forget that Maddux was throwing 94-96 in his late thirties.
You act like the only people using steroids were huge home run hitters and pitchers with high velocity and ignore the high percentage of players caught who were small, speedy middle infielders and slim relief pitchers.
I've coached and played with plenty of players who used steroids and they all threw harder than they should have.

Yeah. And you should know better than a lot of people just how pervasive PEDs still are in just amateur baseball, let alone the majors, where a roster spot is literally worth millions of dollars.

And I’m not making a moral judgement. I’ve said plenty of times that I’d vote Bonds, Clemens, Manny Ramirez, etc into the Hall. I get why they used PEDs. I just think it’s naive to give any player, especially one who was dominant at the height of the steroid era, a pass.

12/25/2018 11:30 AM

strikeout26

Posts: 6524 (0)

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For sure. I agree it's still a major issue. I'm just saying there are certain players where it's obvious that they didn't roid.

12/25/2018 12:00 PM

bad_luck

Posts: 21761 (0)

Hall of Famer

48 1 10

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Posted by strikeout26 on 12/25/2018 12:00:00 PM (view original):
For sure. I agree it's still a major issue. I'm just saying there are certain players where it's obvious that they didn't roid.

What about Pedro makes that obvious?

12/25/2018 12:01 PM

strikeout26

Posts: 6524 (0)

Hall of Famer

128 1 47

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I never said anything about Pedro. There is a chance that he did take steroids. He's 5'10", 170 lbs and threw mid to upper 90's. That just defies physics. I am actually curious about him. I have a good buddy that played with him. I am going to shoot him a text and see what he says.

My comment was in response to your blanket statement of everyone in that era roided. You have since clarified. I get that, but I do think there are players that we can give a pass.

12/25/2018 12:36 PM

bagchucker

Posts: 18640 (0)

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415 1 1 2 12

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i am gonna guess your buddy did not reply or said "just between you and me..."

1/12/2019 2:12 PM

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