Here is the ballot for 2020 (first timers in bold):

Bobby Abreu, Josh Beckett, Heath Bell, Barry Bonds, Eric Chávez, Roger Clemens, Adam Dunn, Chone Figgins, Rafael Furcal, Jason Giambi, Todd Helton, Raúl Ibañez, Derek Jeter, Andruw Jones, Jeff Kent, Paul Konerko, Cliff Lee, Carlos Peña, Brad Penny, Andy Pettitte, J.J. Putz, Manny Ramírez, Brian Roberts, Scott Rolen, Curt Schilling, Gary Sheffield, Alfonso Soriano, Sammy Sosa, José Valverde, Omar Vizquel, Billy Wagner, Larry Walker.

Curious to see everyone else's opinion, and if enough people post ballots, perhaps we'll come close to the percentages of the real voters.

My ballot would be:

Bonds
Clemens
Helton
Jeter
Jones
Ramirez
Rolen
Schilling
Walker

1. helton
2. jeter
3. walker
4. rolen
5. abreu
6. kent

although i think he is a bloody mess of a person and i would not complain if he doesnt get in i would have to add -

7. curt schilling

Abreu
Bonds
Clemens
Jeter
Kent
Manny
Rolen
Wagner

I'm very close on Andruw Jones, Helton, and Vizquel. Also Kent, but I went ahead and said yes on him because he really is head and shoulders above other 2nd basemen with the bat. Among players who primarily played 2nd base Kent is first all time in home runs and trails only Hornsby and Lajoie in RBI, and is also 13th in runs. Obviously counting stats don't tell the whole story, but his rate stats are also pretty elite for a 2nd baseman. Obvious issues with his on- and off-field attitude at times, but I just have him right above the cutoff line. And I could be talked into any of those other 3 guys. Might have said yes to Jones or Vizquel on a different day. Probably never quite saying yes on Helton. Away from Coors he hit a very robust .287/.386/.469, but while those are really solid numbers they aren't good enough when paired with his somewhat mediocre longevity. I also always felt he was highly overrated with the glove.

im looking forward to the early voting tracking...seems to be a good barometer.

Jeter
Bonds
Clemens
Kent
Ramirez
Walker
Helton
and as much as I dislike him, Schilling

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Derek Jeter
Jeff Kent
Scott Rolen
Omar Vizquel
Billy Wagner
Larry Walker

Ok juicer, I'm asking this question because I'm genuinely interested... why no Manny on your list?

Some guys will take a hard stand against people linked to PEDs, but you have Bonds and Clemens on your list.
Some people could fault him for a reputation for bad attitude, being a poor teammate, and sometimes taking a play off. But all of those things also apply to Jeff Kent.
He's clearly above your bar for statistical achievement since Larry Walker is on your list.

So why no Manny? Is it personal, or just a combination of factors?

Speaking just for me and only my opinion. I sure think this is a weak class of nominees. I can't give the nod to any of the 1st timers with Abreau probably being the closest for me.

I think I could only put 3 names on any ballot I had.

Bonds
Manny Ramirez

Both were the most feared hitter in baseball for significant portions of their careers.

And I'd put in Omar Vizquel for overall excellent play over a long career.
That's 3. All I could find really.

Here's the tracker:

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=F2E5D8FC5199DFAF!17003&ithint=file,xlsx&authkey=!ALD8BEbKmTajwcI

I'm really interested to see what kind of support Alfonso Soriano and Paul Konerko receive in their first year. Something tells me Rafael Furcal will get a dozen or so votes, and somebody will vote for Raul Ibanez!

My ballot

1. Barry Bonds
2. Roger Clemens
3. Derek Jeter
4. Larry Walker
5. Curt Schilling
6. Todd Helton
7. Billy Wagner
8. Sammy Sosa

Not sold at all on Vizquel, he seems to have accumulated a lot of hits because of mediocre longevity, like Harold Baines, but I understand he won a lot of Gold Gloves. Defensive metrics are nowhere near the Wizard, whom he's often compared to.

Jeff Kent is tough because he bounced around so much I'm not sure what cap he would wear. All-time HR leader at 2B is great but he did it in the biggest offensive explosion in baseball. Presumably clean but lots of Giants players were guilty of PED's during his era.

Cliff Lee is an interesting case, also really curious to see what kind of support he gets.

I'd vote for Manny if it weren't for 3 PED suspensions!

I don't get it. You hold secondhand PED suspicion against Kent, and use PEDs as a justification to keep out Manny, but you have Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa on your list.

Is the standard here that we can hold it against Manny because when he got caught the rule existed? I'm actually very ok with that. It's a clear bright line and frankly makes a lot of sense - before there was a rule, it wasn't explicitly cheating. But if that's the case... shouldn't Sosa at least still be out? Corked bat...

Posted by dahsdebater on 11/21/2019 4:53:00 PM (view original):
I don't get it. You hold secondhand PED suspicion against Kent, and use PEDs as a justification to keep out Manny, but you have Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa on your list.

Is the standard here that we can hold it against Manny because when he got caught the rule existed? I'm actually very ok with that. It's a clear bright line and frankly makes a lot of sense - before there was a rule, it wasn't explicitly cheating. But if that's the case... shouldn't Sosa at least still be out? Corked bat...

That's exactly what I'm saying about Manny, and Palmeiro for that matter. Both of these guys can be kept out of the HOF because they failed drug tests and suspended for it. Manny also got caught using a corked bat!

https://www.cardboardconnection.com/truth-pacific-manny-ramirez-corked-bat-card

In the case of Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, and even McGwire, there is no irrefutable proof they did steroids.

Heck, what McGwire was using in 1998 was not banned at the federal level and could be purchased at GNC. Now, it has been subsequently banned, but that's like saying let's keep all the players out of the HOF that were using Greenies in the 50's and 60's.

Brad Penny

its a small sample at this point but reported ballots show jeters at 100%
and ( the ) cheaters at 60% .
need 75%.
so far so good.