Posted by tangplay on 12/18/2020 9:17:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/18/2020 9:10:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 12/17/2020 7:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 6:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 6:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 6:23:00 PM (view original):
Why does background matter. Immigrant blacks do very well here an want to come here. So there goes your systemic racist argument. Why would 45 mil want to come to a systemically racist country? Stop posting links without context.

Stop posting links without context.

Why does background matter.

Kinda says it all tbh. You don't want to have your mind changed. Notice when you cite something, I go out of my way to read it and ask for more information. When I cite something, you just skip over it and make some vague comment about how studies are stupid.

I just want to ask you a question. Is it possible for black people in America to have more success, on average, than black people in Haiti, the Dominican Republic, or various African countries AND have less success, on average, than white people in America?

It's a yes/no question. Don't need anything else. Thank you!

You blindly cite. Doesn't mean anything to me. Trying to break you from that habit. Like a dog peeing indoors.

Is it possible for black people in America to have more success, on average, than black people in Haiti, the Dominican Republic, or various African countries AND have less success, on average, than white people in America?

What? I re-read your question several times. Of course it is possible. Almost anything is possible. I do not think color is the issue it is one parent vs. two parent upbringing.

one parent vs two parent households certainly plays a part but if you think the color of your skin does not make any difference, well, I think you are fooling yourself.

Does being skinny or fat make a difference? Tall or short? Pretty or ugly? Color is a small part. Tiny part. At least here in the Northeast it is. Cannot speak for the rest of the country.

Yes, all of those things DO make a difference! Now you're getting it!

So systemic racism is real and does make a difference, right?

Once we agree on that, we can talk about how much.

Definite systemic racism: Use your own words.

My words: The system is specifically prejudiced vs. people of color and openly discriminates against them solely based on color.

Yours?

And you talk down to me again I will embarrass your sorry ***, loser.

Posted by laramiebob on 12/18/2020 10:37:00 AM (view original):
Here in AZ we have folks who are success "challenged" because they be toothless.

Heck, where I live the joke is that "the wimmen ain't got no teeth there"................

Jokes aside..........much of this is really about poverty/wealth.

In AZ we have multi-billionaires..............LOTS of 'em.
We also have folks who try and get by on 400............................Bucks...............per Year!
Some make it. desert rats.

But, point is, there's LOTS of them, too, LOTS more of them than the millionaires.............and many of 'em...........got no teeth!!
Or healthcare. Much less dental and eyecare.

400K per year???
I said 400 bucks year!!
And for many that's about 399 bucks too high!

Well my dog just tore his CCL (ACL for us) in one of his paws. Fun times. Luckily I have PET INSURANCE. But still it will cost me about $1k out of pocket.

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/18/2020 9:10:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 12/17/2020 7:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 6:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 6:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 6:23:00 PM (view original):
Why does background matter. Immigrant blacks do very well here an want to come here. So there goes your systemic racist argument. Why would 45 mil want to come to a systemically racist country? Stop posting links without context.

Stop posting links without context.

Why does background matter.

Kinda says it all tbh. You don't want to have your mind changed. Notice when you cite something, I go out of my way to read it and ask for more information. When I cite something, you just skip over it and make some vague comment about how studies are stupid.

I just want to ask you a question. Is it possible for black people in America to have more success, on average, than black people in Haiti, the Dominican Republic, or various African countries AND have less success, on average, than white people in America?

It's a yes/no question. Don't need anything else. Thank you!

You blindly cite. Doesn't mean anything to me. Trying to break you from that habit. Like a dog peeing indoors.

Is it possible for black people in America to have more success, on average, than black people in Haiti, the Dominican Republic, or various African countries AND have less success, on average, than white people in America?

What? I re-read your question several times. Of course it is possible. Almost anything is possible. I do not think color is the issue it is one parent vs. two parent upbringing.

one parent vs two parent households certainly plays a part but if you think the color of your skin does not make any difference, well, I think you are fooling yourself.

Does being skinny or fat make a difference? Tall or short? Pretty or ugly? Color is a small part. Tiny part. At least here in the Northeast it is. Cannot speak for the rest of the country.

All of that makes a difference. It's easy for you or me to say color does not make a big difference. We are white, so we don't really know how being black or brown would affect our lives.
Also, it's been a while but when I lived in MA (like 30 plus years ago), the Boston area was very racist. Hopefully it has changed since then.

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/18/2020 11:37:00 AM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 12/18/2020 10:37:00 AM (view original):
Here in AZ we have folks who are success "challenged" because they be toothless.

Heck, where I live the joke is that "the wimmen ain't got no teeth there"................

Jokes aside..........much of this is really about poverty/wealth.

In AZ we have multi-billionaires..............LOTS of 'em.
We also have folks who try and get by on 400............................Bucks...............per Year!
Some make it. desert rats.

But, point is, there's LOTS of them, too, LOTS more of them than the millionaires.............and many of 'em...........got no teeth!!
Or healthcare. Much less dental and eyecare.

400K per year???
I said 400 bucks year!!
And for many that's about 399 bucks too high!

Well my dog just tore his CCL (ACL for us) in one of his paws. Fun times. Luckily I have PET INSURANCE. But still it will cost me about $1k out of pocket.

sorry to hear about your dog!

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/18/2020 11:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/18/2020 9:17:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/18/2020 9:10:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 12/17/2020 7:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 6:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 6:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 6:23:00 PM (view original):
Why does background matter. Immigrant blacks do very well here an want to come here. So there goes your systemic racist argument. Why would 45 mil want to come to a systemically racist country? Stop posting links without context.

Stop posting links without context.

Why does background matter.

Kinda says it all tbh. You don't want to have your mind changed. Notice when you cite something, I go out of my way to read it and ask for more information. When I cite something, you just skip over it and make some vague comment about how studies are stupid.

I just want to ask you a question. Is it possible for black people in America to have more success, on average, than black people in Haiti, the Dominican Republic, or various African countries AND have less success, on average, than white people in America?

It's a yes/no question. Don't need anything else. Thank you!

You blindly cite. Doesn't mean anything to me. Trying to break you from that habit. Like a dog peeing indoors.

Is it possible for black people in America to have more success, on average, than black people in Haiti, the Dominican Republic, or various African countries AND have less success, on average, than white people in America?

What? I re-read your question several times. Of course it is possible. Almost anything is possible. I do not think color is the issue it is one parent vs. two parent upbringing.

one parent vs two parent households certainly plays a part but if you think the color of your skin does not make any difference, well, I think you are fooling yourself.

Does being skinny or fat make a difference? Tall or short? Pretty or ugly? Color is a small part. Tiny part. At least here in the Northeast it is. Cannot speak for the rest of the country.

Yes, all of those things DO make a difference! Now you're getting it!

So systemic racism is real and does make a difference, right?

Once we agree on that, we can talk about how much.

Definite systemic racism: Use your own words.

My words: The system is specifically prejudiced vs. people of color and openly discriminates against them solely based on color.

Yours?

And you talk down to me again I will embarrass your sorry ***, loser.

Our systems and institutions, practically, are structurally biased against POC, leading to huge racial disparities in things like criminal justice and healthcare.

I think I can predict your your hang-ups and address them:
1. You can believe in systemic racism and acknowledge that other factors not only exist, but might be more important, like poverty.
2. Systemic racism doesn't require open, hostile racism to be present in most people.
3. Systemic racism does not mean that every black person has the same experience and is worse off than every white person.

I can back up my definition with a myriad of factual statements and studies. For example, at nearly every level of criminal justice, black people are treated more harshly than white people, oftentimes for reasons that go back to laws intended to criminalize them specifically. Look up the origin of the war on drugs.

I think the criminal justice system is structurally biased against men. Men are given disproportionate sentences compared to women, are treated more harshly by police, and are overall discriminated against. This is due to a larger societal perception of men being more dangerous, while women are perceived as more harmless.

Does this mean that there is a specific intent to discriminate against men, laws being passed to **** over men, or a bunch of sexist judges? No! But the structural biases still persist.

Now take that and apply it to race.

Posted by wylie715 on 12/18/2020 12:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/18/2020 9:10:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 12/17/2020 7:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 6:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 6:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 6:23:00 PM (view original):
Why does background matter. Immigrant blacks do very well here an want to come here. So there goes your systemic racist argument. Why would 45 mil want to come to a systemically racist country? Stop posting links without context.

Stop posting links without context.

Why does background matter.

Kinda says it all tbh. You don't want to have your mind changed. Notice when you cite something, I go out of my way to read it and ask for more information. When I cite something, you just skip over it and make some vague comment about how studies are stupid.

I just want to ask you a question. Is it possible for black people in America to have more success, on average, than black people in Haiti, the Dominican Republic, or various African countries AND have less success, on average, than white people in America?

It's a yes/no question. Don't need anything else. Thank you!

You blindly cite. Doesn't mean anything to me. Trying to break you from that habit. Like a dog peeing indoors.

Is it possible for black people in America to have more success, on average, than black people in Haiti, the Dominican Republic, or various African countries AND have less success, on average, than white people in America?

What? I re-read your question several times. Of course it is possible. Almost anything is possible. I do not think color is the issue it is one parent vs. two parent upbringing.

one parent vs two parent households certainly plays a part but if you think the color of your skin does not make any difference, well, I think you are fooling yourself.

Does being skinny or fat make a difference? Tall or short? Pretty or ugly? Color is a small part. Tiny part. At least here in the Northeast it is. Cannot speak for the rest of the country.

All of that makes a difference. It's easy for you or me to say color does not make a big difference. We are white, so we don't really know how being black or brown would affect our lives.
Also, it's been a while but when I lived in MA (like 30 plus years ago), the Boston area was very racist. Hopefully it has changed since then.

It has changed. Per my black friends (small sample size) they have not. Funny, wylie, my oldest has a 4.7 GPA and scored in the top 7% of SATs and her GC told her to forget Ivy League because she is a "suburban white girl".

True story. So yeah, easy for me to say I guess. I live it.

4.7 and top 93% of SATs? Forget Ivy schools?

yeah I don’t buy it

just like I don’t buy households making $400k are middle class

Ummm... my adjusted GPA was much better than that, and I scored a 2400 the first time they gave the 2400 point SAT. I was waitlisted at Yale and rejected at Princeton. That's not nearly enough info to suggest that it's not a credible story.

I'm gonna generally believe people talking about their own lives. They probably know them better than you do.

Posted by tangplay on 12/18/2020 12:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/18/2020 11:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/18/2020 9:17:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/18/2020 9:10:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 12/17/2020 7:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 6:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 6:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 6:23:00 PM (view original):
Why does background matter. Immigrant blacks do very well here an want to come here. So there goes your systemic racist argument. Why would 45 mil want to come to a systemically racist country? Stop posting links without context.

Stop posting links without context.

Why does background matter.

Kinda says it all tbh. You don't want to have your mind changed. Notice when you cite something, I go out of my way to read it and ask for more information. When I cite something, you just skip over it and make some vague comment about how studies are stupid.

I just want to ask you a question. Is it possible for black people in America to have more success, on average, than black people in Haiti, the Dominican Republic, or various African countries AND have less success, on average, than white people in America?

It's a yes/no question. Don't need anything else. Thank you!

You blindly cite. Doesn't mean anything to me. Trying to break you from that habit. Like a dog peeing indoors.

Is it possible for black people in America to have more success, on average, than black people in Haiti, the Dominican Republic, or various African countries AND have less success, on average, than white people in America?

What? I re-read your question several times. Of course it is possible. Almost anything is possible. I do not think color is the issue it is one parent vs. two parent upbringing.

one parent vs two parent households certainly plays a part but if you think the color of your skin does not make any difference, well, I think you are fooling yourself.

Does being skinny or fat make a difference? Tall or short? Pretty or ugly? Color is a small part. Tiny part. At least here in the Northeast it is. Cannot speak for the rest of the country.

Yes, all of those things DO make a difference! Now you're getting it!

So systemic racism is real and does make a difference, right?

Once we agree on that, we can talk about how much.

Definite systemic racism: Use your own words.

My words: The system is specifically prejudiced vs. people of color and openly discriminates against them solely based on color.

Yours?

And you talk down to me again I will embarrass your sorry ***, loser.

Our systems and institutions, practically, are structurally biased against POC, leading to huge racial disparities in things like criminal justice and healthcare.

I think I can predict your your hang-ups and address them:
1. You can believe in systemic racism and acknowledge that other factors not only exist, but might be more important, like poverty.
2. Systemic racism doesn't require open, hostile racism to be present in most people.
3. Systemic racism does not mean that every black person has the same experience and is worse off than every white person.

I can back up my definition with a myriad of factual statements and studies. For example, at nearly every level of criminal justice, black people are treated more harshly than white people, oftentimes for reasons that go back to laws intended to criminalize them specifically. Look up the origin of the war on drugs.

Since we have different operational definitions we will never agree. I told you 100x, we should legalize drugs. JEEEZUZ.

Thanks for your kind words, wylie.

Posted by Uofa2 on 12/18/2020 1:01:00 PM (view original):
4.7 and top 93% of SATs? Forget Ivy schools?

yeah I don’t buy it

just like I don’t buy households making $400k are middle class

That was the quote from her guidance councilor. What aren't you buying and $400k is middle class in Brookline MA. Look at the price of Real Estate...if you don't make at least that you cannot afford a home here.

Now my daughter is only a junior but she now has to temper her expectations.

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/18/2020 3:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/18/2020 12:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/18/2020 11:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/18/2020 9:17:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/18/2020 9:10:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 12/17/2020 7:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 6:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 6:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 6:23:00 PM (view original):
Why does background matter. Immigrant blacks do very well here an want to come here. So there goes your systemic racist argument. Why would 45 mil want to come to a systemically racist country? Stop posting links without context.

Stop posting links without context.

Why does background matter.

Kinda says it all tbh. You don't want to have your mind changed. Notice when you cite something, I go out of my way to read it and ask for more information. When I cite something, you just skip over it and make some vague comment about how studies are stupid.

I just want to ask you a question. Is it possible for black people in America to have more success, on average, than black people in Haiti, the Dominican Republic, or various African countries AND have less success, on average, than white people in America?

It's a yes/no question. Don't need anything else. Thank you!

You blindly cite. Doesn't mean anything to me. Trying to break you from that habit. Like a dog peeing indoors.

Is it possible for black people in America to have more success, on average, than black people in Haiti, the Dominican Republic, or various African countries AND have less success, on average, than white people in America?

What? I re-read your question several times. Of course it is possible. Almost anything is possible. I do not think color is the issue it is one parent vs. two parent upbringing.

one parent vs two parent households certainly plays a part but if you think the color of your skin does not make any difference, well, I think you are fooling yourself.

Does being skinny or fat make a difference? Tall or short? Pretty or ugly? Color is a small part. Tiny part. At least here in the Northeast it is. Cannot speak for the rest of the country.

Yes, all of those things DO make a difference! Now you're getting it!

So systemic racism is real and does make a difference, right?

Once we agree on that, we can talk about how much.

Definite systemic racism: Use your own words.

My words: The system is specifically prejudiced vs. people of color and openly discriminates against them solely based on color.

Yours?

And you talk down to me again I will embarrass your sorry ***, loser.

Our systems and institutions, practically, are structurally biased against POC, leading to huge racial disparities in things like criminal justice and healthcare.

I think I can predict your your hang-ups and address them:
1. You can believe in systemic racism and acknowledge that other factors not only exist, but might be more important, like poverty.
2. Systemic racism doesn't require open, hostile racism to be present in most people.
3. Systemic racism does not mean that every black person has the same experience and is worse off than every white person.

I can back up my definition with a myriad of factual statements and studies. For example, at nearly every level of criminal justice, black people are treated more harshly than white people, oftentimes for reasons that go back to laws intended to criminalize them specifically. Look up the origin of the war on drugs.

Since we have different operational definitions we will never agree. I told you 100x, we should legalize drugs. JEEEZUZ.

Do you agree that under my definition of systemic racism, it exists? We can decide to what extent we agree on that before discussing what the words generally mean in modern discourse.

Let's agree on a set of facts before we debate semantics. Those types of conversations are boring to me anyway. I'd much rather agree on what's actually happening than debate what words mean.

Criminalizing drugs is not the only specific policy that impacts people though. Here's a great example. Have you heard of civil forfeiture?

By the way, if you agree that the war on drugs has negatively, disproportionately, and intentionally harmed the black community, that's a policy backed and created by Republicans, supported by Republicans today, that still impacts black people in obvious ways. Isn't that kind of crazy? That we would intentionally criminalize certain drugs, just to villainize groups of people? And that conservatives, even Trump, will defend these policies?

"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities." - John Ehrlichman, Counsel to Pres Nixon.

I get that you don't support these policies, but you enable people who do.

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/18/2020 3:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Uofa2 on 12/18/2020 1:01:00 PM (view original):
4.7 and top 93% of SATs? Forget Ivy schools?

yeah I don’t buy it

just like I don’t buy households making $400k are middle class

That was the quote from her guidance councilor. What aren't you buying and $400k is middle class in Brookline MA. Look at the price of Real Estate...if you don't make at least that you cannot afford a home here.

Now my daughter is only a junior but she now has to temper her expectations.

If you live somewhere that $400K is middle class, maybe you're not the best person to try to relate to what the 98% of the Country where about 15% of that amount is middle class needs.