Injuries/Playoff fatigue - *Updated* Topic

seble
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Quick heads up for you guys. In the next few weeks we're going to make a couple tweaks to the game.

Injuries (both single-game and multi-game) will become more common for severely fatigued players. This shouldn't affect most players, but the ones that are being abused will become more injury-prone. We'll be focusing that on guys that are below 50% and especially on 0% guys.

Also, we're going to take a look at the playoff fatigue system. Currently it's become common to max out starters' minutes for multiple games without fatigue. While we intentionally built in a little more wiggle room for the playoffs, it seems to loose right now.

The injury update will likely come first, maybe next week. The playoff fatigue update may take a little longer.

**** Update ****
The injury changes are now out there. Essentially injuries for heavily fatigued players will increase quite a bit. Injuries for players that are not severely fatigued may increase slightly, but should still be pretty rare.

Also, you're no longer allowed to waive players while they're injured.

And technical fouls have been removed.
10/27/2008 1:42 PM
ncih
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Sounds good.

You need to have a max setting for the number of minutes each player plays in a game in both in the regular season and playoffs before becoming fatigued.

The idea of building up minutes and then playing someone the entire game several games in a row needs to be eliminated.

Anyone who plays more than 20% above their IRL minutes in two or more games in a row should be subject to a multiple game injury.
10/27/2008 2:13 PM
ashamael
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yeah... the "tanking" syndrome is annoying to say the least. Yet it's not unbeatable. I just had an incredible series with someone who tanked in game 2 so they could play 4 of their starters 48 minutes. I was down 3-1 and came back, but I'd rather see more realism. A lot of people take greater issue with this tanking strategy than I do, but I still hate seeing scores of 160 - 12, just to see Wesley Person play 48 mpg for 5 straight.
10/27/2008 2:34 PM
bball_jones
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Great! I've been waiting for that for a long time.

How about increasing foul probabilities for these same players. This way, the injuries and foul trouble would make it less likely for scrubs to play full games thus make it harder to tank games to stack up starters minutes.
10/27/2008 6:03 PM
jhbowen60
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It would be more realistic that near the end of the regular season if you decrease your starters minutes then come playoff time they should be able to extend the normal regular season mpg average without a negative impact. This is how it works in the real world.
10/30/2008 12:41 PM
ncih
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I agree that starters should be able to play more minutes in the playoffs.

It's the player playing 48 minutes for several games in a row when the player only averaged low to mid 30's that is the problem.

That's why I recommended the 120% cap.
10/30/2008 2:07 PM
all3
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I'd love to see that 120% cap applied to Games played too. Put some more coaching and decision-making back in the SIM. Loved when this was the case in the good old days.
10/30/2008 2:11 PM
shawno_boy2
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We oughta look at a few real life examples before making judgement. Obviously I agree starters play more minutes in the playoffs, I would say just model it after their IRL minutes, however the problem there is that not every player has recorded playoff averages.

Take CP3 for instance. In the playoffs last season he averaged 40.5 as opposed to his 37.6 regular season average. It's about a 10 percent increase. that's in line with what you guys have been suggesting, but can we really decide that any player, not just an all-world talent like cp3, could raise his game like that and not have to worry about wear and fatigue.

I also think a relevant point here is that by the end of the season players are in much better conditioning, so a sudden spike would affect them less than, say, the beginning of the year.
10/30/2008 3:27 PM
ashleyscott
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John Stockton was a point guard for Utah Jazz, not known for his scoring.

In his 5th season, his per game minute average jumped to about 46 minutes per game in the playoffs.

His per game scoring went from 17 to 27. Assist stayed around 13.6 per game. Shooting dropped from 53% to 51%. TOs stayed at 3.8 per game. He did foul more, going from 2.9 to 5 per game but how much of that was intentional fouling.

They were swept by the warriors 3-0 in the playoffs. So his average was for only 3 games. That playoffs, his mpg was up 20% more than his regular season mpg.

The season before, his playoff mpg was 25% more than regular season. They played 11 playoff games. He also took more of a scoring load that playoffs -- his ppg went up by about 5 points.


10/30/2008 6:38 PM
98average
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who's your daddy bball
10/30/2008 7:56 PM
monkee
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Quote: Originally Posted By shawno_boy2 on 10/30/2008We oughta look at a few real life examples before making judgement.
no

in real life the guy you pay 239 for would probably have no problem playing 35 mpg for a season, he just didnt

but that's not what you pay for in the sim - part of what you pay for is minutes potential - it is part of the salary valuation equation

typically it is an imbalance in salary valuation vs actual sim effectiveness that creates competitive imbalance and 'glitchy' behavior - so for instance if minutes potential is part of the salary equation and yet the sim does not fatigue players properly it creates a situation where we are overpaying for minutes

the solution: either relax the salary weight for minutes (which I dont think anyone wants) or make the minutes count
10/30/2008 10:51 PM
bball_jones
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Quote: Originally Posted By 98average on 10/30/2008who's your daddy bbal
I told ya to stay in the kids yard if you wanna feel like you're da man, you can't compete with the big boys, you need glitches to win. This one's been around forever but you had to copycat a noobie to finally get your genius brain to realize it was out there.

You asked for it, ok here it is;

I hereby award 98average with his much coveted title

WIS' NBA GLITCH QUEEN

There you go, feeling better now? We all recognize your achievements. Now go back to your playstation and don't forget the cheat codes otherwise you won't get through stage one of your games.

10/31/2008 2:41 AM
shawno_boy2
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I think that 239 players are use at your own risk. If someone wants to be blown out let them. You cannot deny that impact players in the NBA are given more minutes in the postseason without losing overall efficiency. It's a part of NBA basketball that coaches go from a 9 or 10 man rotation to 7 or 8 in the playoffs. Saying that you shouldn't be able to ride your studs in the postseason goes against the rules of the game we are trying to simulate. I don't understand why you would refuse to admit the only thing that we have to go on in a math-based sim - THE FACTS.

PS monkee you are an imbecile. that is all.
10/31/2008 5:40 AM
ashleyscott
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Do people want the sim to be realistic or not?

If yes, then the 120% cap is a bad idea. It is unrealistic, as already noted, to believe that a guy who played only 410 minutes during the season, doesn't have the conditioning to play 35 minutes per in the playoffs.

If the answer is no, you don't want it to be realistic, then use the cap.

Either way, we all would be playing by the same rules and nobody would have an advantage over another -- the same as it is now.

10/31/2008 9:41 AM
monkee
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Quote: Originally Posted By shawno_boy2 on 10/31/2008




I think that 239 players are use at your own risk. If someone wants to be blown out let them. You cannot deny that impact players in the NBA are given more minutes in the postseason without losing overall efficiency. It's a part of NBA basketball that coaches go from a 9 or 10 man rotation to 7 or 8 in the playoffs. Saying that you shouldn't be able to ride your studs in the postseason goes against the rules of the game we are trying to simulate. I don't understand why you would refuse to admit the only thing that we have to go on in a math-based sim - THE FACTS.

this is where reality and the sim should and do part ways - you pay for established stats not potential - it's a very simple concept - either change salary valuation or make the minutes that you pay for count

PS monkee you are an imbecile. that is all.

I guess I deserve that - seeing as I disagreed with you (and used language that was too complicated for you to follow)


10/31/2008 9:49 AM
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