Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/15/2016 3:40:00 PM (view original):
Adapt or quit....

+1

Also, for context:
- I've never had an Early Entry (EE).
- Zorzii has also never had an EE.
- kcsundevil has no teams in HD anymore.

Posted by npb7768 on 11/15/2016 4:27:00 PM (view original):
Also, for context:
- I've never had an Early Entry (EE).
- Zorzii has also never had an EE.
- kcsundevil has no teams in HD anymore.

Zorzi has this agenda like many other people have had to make people quit the game.

"- Beta world started in May 2016, and lasted 4 semi-abbreviated seasons, ending in August-September 2016.
- The 1st Beta season was tough, because recruiting had changed a lot, and there were a lot of warts.
- Many owners bailed after Season One.
- Those that remained worked to improve the new system, and a ton of changes were made for the better."

Actually those of us who stayed played beta seasons 7 through 13, so seven seasons in all. I agree that a ton of changes were made, overall for the better. I was astonished how many guys couldn't or wouldn't cope with the changes and left, but I think we can see now 3.0 is an interesting game.

Yeah, I check to see who has/done what in order to put their posts in context.

EE is a future problem for me and, I imagine, will be different if/when it's a problem I need to contend with. WifS support can be a pain in the *** but, if you can form a complete sentence with a reasonable thought, they will consider changes. As a business owner, I don't really care when a ******** customer pledges to never do business with me. They're poison. But, if they can reasonably explain their problem, I'll see if I can resolve it without changing my entire business approach. With any luck, the people who are openly complaining are also reasonably explaining the problems behind the scenes.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/15/2016 4:37:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, I check to see who has/done what in order to put their posts in context.

EE is a future problem for me and, I imagine, will be different if/when it's a problem I need to contend with. WifS support can be a pain in the *** but, if you can form a complete sentence with a reasonable thought, they will consider changes. As a business owner, I don't really care when a ******** customer pledges to never do business with me. They're poison. But, if they can reasonably explain their problem, I'll see if I can resolve it without changing my entire business approach. With any luck, the people who are openly complaining are also reasonably explaining the problems behind the scenes.

That was done during beta and during the initial rollout, and WIS couldn't manage anything more than an "Eh, we think it'll work out, maybe we'll revisit in 4-5 seasons." If they could have come up with even a tiny bit of concern (or at least faked it better) there would probably be more slack given.

I think seble also should have acknowledged his role in creating the advantages that elite DI schools enjoyed. Postseason money has been the same since the game began, but small and mid major DI schools could compete until seble nerfed recruit generation and introduced potential (and to a lesser extent displayed school prestige). Prior to that, small schools could compete on the national stage, if well coached.

As somebody who is leaving, it generally boils down to two things, one isthe fact that I find 3.0 to require a lot more of my time. I find scouting more click intensive (although that has improved since early beta seasons) and much more time consuming. Also, given the limits on visits and the importance of AP, I've found it a much bigger disadvantage to miss the opening cycle or two of recruiting. I have no doubt that there will be tweaks, and in 6 or 9 months I may stick my toe back in and try another season or two.

The second is a dispute of priorities. I didn't think that this was one of the top 3 or 4 things wrong with the game. Others disagreed, and this isn't to debate who is right, who is wrong. It has to do with WIS' history of HD updates. I wouldn't expect another update that may address those other issues for another 3-4 years. And I just don't want to wait that long.

Posted by acn24 on 11/15/2016 5:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/15/2016 4:37:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, I check to see who has/done what in order to put their posts in context.

EE is a future problem for me and, I imagine, will be different if/when it's a problem I need to contend with. WifS support can be a pain in the *** but, if you can form a complete sentence with a reasonable thought, they will consider changes. As a business owner, I don't really care when a ******** customer pledges to never do business with me. They're poison. But, if they can reasonably explain their problem, I'll see if I can resolve it without changing my entire business approach. With any luck, the people who are openly complaining are also reasonably explaining the problems behind the scenes.

That was done during beta and during the initial rollout, and WIS couldn't manage anything more than an "Eh, we think it'll work out, maybe we'll revisit in 4-5 seasons." If they could have come up with even a tiny bit of concern (or at least faked it better) there would probably be more slack given.

I think seble also should have acknowledged his role in creating the advantages that elite DI schools enjoyed. Postseason money has been the same since the game began, but small and mid major DI schools could compete until seble nerfed recruit generation and introduced potential (and to a lesser extent displayed school prestige). Prior to that, small schools could compete on the national stage, if well coached.

As somebody who is leaving, it generally boils down to two things, one isthe fact that I find 3.0 to require a lot more of my time. I find scouting more click intensive (although that has improved since early beta seasons) and much more time consuming. Also, given the limits on visits and the importance of AP, I've found it a much bigger disadvantage to miss the opening cycle or two of recruiting. I have no doubt that there will be tweaks, and in 6 or 9 months I may stick my toe back in and try another season or two.

The second is a dispute of priorities. I didn't think that this was one of the top 3 or 4 things wrong with the game. Others disagreed, and this isn't to debate who is right, who is wrong. It has to do with WIS' history of HD updates. I wouldn't expect another update that may address those other issues for another 3-4 years. And I just don't want to wait that long.

well said acn

Posted by acn24 on 11/15/2016 5:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/15/2016 4:37:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, I check to see who has/done what in order to put their posts in context.

EE is a future problem for me and, I imagine, will be different if/when it's a problem I need to contend with. WifS support can be a pain in the *** but, if you can form a complete sentence with a reasonable thought, they will consider changes. As a business owner, I don't really care when a ******** customer pledges to never do business with me. They're poison. But, if they can reasonably explain their problem, I'll see if I can resolve it without changing my entire business approach. With any luck, the people who are openly complaining are also reasonably explaining the problems behind the scenes.

That was done during beta and during the initial rollout, and WIS couldn't manage anything more than an "Eh, we think it'll work out, maybe we'll revisit in 4-5 seasons." If they could have come up with even a tiny bit of concern (or at least faked it better) there would probably be more slack given.

I think seble also should have acknowledged his role in creating the advantages that elite DI schools enjoyed. Postseason money has been the same since the game began, but small and mid major DI schools could compete until seble nerfed recruit generation and introduced potential (and to a lesser extent displayed school prestige). Prior to that, small schools could compete on the national stage, if well coached.

As somebody who is leaving, it generally boils down to two things, one isthe fact that I find 3.0 to require a lot more of my time. I find scouting more click intensive (although that has improved since early beta seasons) and much more time consuming. Also, given the limits on visits and the importance of AP, I've found it a much bigger disadvantage to miss the opening cycle or two of recruiting. I have no doubt that there will be tweaks, and in 6 or 9 months I may stick my toe back in and try another season or two.

The second is a dispute of priorities. I didn't think that this was one of the top 3 or 4 things wrong with the game. Others disagreed, and this isn't to debate who is right, who is wrong. It has to do with WIS' history of HD updates. I wouldn't expect another update that may address those other issues for another 3-4 years. And I just don't want to wait that long.

bye!

There was always going to be attrition with a major update. There is attrition from people who can't stand the movement of their cheese, there is attrition from people unable or unwilling to learn a new thing, there is attrition from people offended that their ideas weren't chosen, and their preferences not catered to. Whatever. It's not my job to worry about what anyone else likes. People will start nabbing those Big 6 jobs when they're able. The big issue at the moment is getting job logic adjusted to 3.0.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/15/2016 4:37:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, I check to see who has/done what in order to put their posts in context.

EE is a future problem for me and, I imagine, will be different if/when it's a problem I need to contend with. WifS support can be a pain in the *** but, if you can form a complete sentence with a reasonable thought, they will consider changes. As a business owner, I don't really care when a ******** customer pledges to never do business with me. They're poison. But, if they can reasonably explain their problem, I'll see if I can resolve it without changing my entire business approach. With any luck, the people who are openly complaining are also reasonably explaining the problems behind the scenes.

As someone who contends with EEs I think the complaints on the EEs are largely overblown and don't really need "fixing". Looking at it from the developer's point of view - and what I think they are/were trying to accomplish - I don't think it's broken. I think the developer's are/were trying to build a game where coaches need to focus on team building without a reliance on the EE caliber player. This, in turn, allows the EEs to be more spread out among more schools. You can still try to rely solely on EEs, but it's going to be painful if you do and I don't think the game was designed to easily produce the equivalent of a RL Kentucky or Duke. So the developers have, more or less, openly discouraged building a team in that manner.

I understand why some don't like that. I understand why some think they are being punished and forced to "dumb down" their rosters but the game is meant to be a challenge and for too many I don't think it was. If a game doesn't cause everyone to face adversity now and again, it's probably not challenging enough. The game was at a point where having a successful team wasn't proof you were really good at the game ... I am proof positive that it didn't take a genius to re-build a team and turn it into a winner. Truthfully, if I was able to do it, anyone with enough patience could. In my mind, 2.0 made it impossible to tell who was really good at the game and who had just played long enough in the right situation where success was inevitable if you were even half way paying attention. I don't mean that to disparage any successful coach who played this game, I grant that there are some/many/most who have played who were/are truly masters, my argument is that in 2.0 it was impossible to suss those guys out from the pretenders.

My biggest concern for 3.0 is much of what you say with respect to CS and how willing they are to continue tweaking some spots that are still pretty clunky. I sent a ticket into CS a week or two ago with some suggestions that I think would help the game and received a very plain "thank you for your suggestions" that left me feeling that they were immediately discarded in the trash bin (which may be where they belonged). I wasn't expecting they would jump and begin implementing my suggestions but the radio silence on whether they are continuing to make any adjustments is frustrating. Do they recognize or even think there are any lingering issues here that need to be tweaked? Little recent communication has come from the developers despite a promise about two months ago from tzentmeyer in a separate pinned thread saying

HD is now in the dedicated hands of two veteran WIS employees: redhawk_514 and cwisniewski. Both have been competitively playing HD for years and served key roles in the 3.0 upgrade. The transition has been months in the making, so both are excited to take the reins and continue to improve the game. Both will become much more active in the forums moving forward.

I would note that redhawk and cwis have a combined 2 posts (one each) in the forums since the beginning of November. By comparison I suppose that is more active than what it had been for years, but I for one was hopeful they would interact a little more with the community in much the way seble did during beta. I wasn't expecting they'd give away the inner workings of the game but it would be nice to see them interject a little in the discussions.

I jumped back in Allen D1 with the free credit, and so far I like the increased depth and clicking that is involved with the scouting. Results? I have none. But it is semi-interesting at this point and I look forward to seeing how the rest of the season plays out.

Posted by shoe3 on 11/15/2016 5:50:00 PM (view original):
There was always going to be attrition with a major update. There is attrition from people who can't stand the movement of their cheese, there is attrition from people unable or unwilling to learn a new thing, there is attrition from people offended that their ideas weren't chosen, and their preferences not catered to. Whatever. It's not my job to worry about what anyone else likes. People will start nabbing those Big 6 jobs when they're able. The big issue at the moment is getting job logic adjusted to 3.0.

D2d3 work, not sure it's better but it works as intented. Everybody can have their redemption if they miss out cause they can grab higher level players, unrecruited in second session.

D1 is even more broken than it waz when top teams picked and others in the foodchain waited their turn

I really like 3.0 and am having a lot of success in recruiting just like I did in 2.0. I wish my game planning was better though.

I personally think there is more strategy. In 2.0, often by the end of the second cycle of recruiting, if I had an A+ prestige program, I had all of my recruits lined up and everyone was afraid to challenge me or any other A+ program. It was really too easy, in my opinion.

It was also unrealistic to me that a 5 star player would only have one team trying to recruit them, because other teams were afraid that if they tried to recruit that player that they would look like they were too weak and spread to thin. Even if I did not like the changes, I would probably give it like 6 or 8 seasons before I left because I like the whole game, not just recruiting. And I would hate to leave something I have enjoyed for so many years. I also sense more involvement from the administrators since Seble left, so that is an encouraging sign. Plus, I really like new challenges, and want to see if I can be the best (which I am not), but I like the challenge of trying to get to that point. And we are all starting at the same point right now.

possumfiend, from a HBD standpoint, active participation from CS in the forums was a disaster. It ALWAYS turned into a poorly-worded bitchfest. However, they were reading. Hopefully, that is continuing in HD.

And, yes, the "Thanks" to a ticket is frustrating. I don't really think they pay much attention when you get that reply. First level support is not very good. Sometimes it takes awhile to break thru to someone better. Whatever you do, don't bother with a ticket on the weekend. I'm almost positive they're manned by an above average intelligence four legged animal.