How low of a Work Ethic is typically acceptable for you to consider a recruit? How much do you value W.E when comparing two recruits?

At D1 I hate taking a recruit below 25, will go lower on transfers because low WE usually means broken promises that will recover once he is playing minutes enough to make him happy. Winning at D1 is about growth, and no growth without WE.

At the lower divisions, "IF" the cores are acceptable I will go as low as it takes as long as the GPA is acceptable as well. GPA dictates the IQ growth, not WE.

my cut off is around 20. but I will consider taking less than that depending on the situation. for example, when running press I can start the low WE guy more easily and build the WE at a faster pace. it seems like guys at 10-20 can actually grow, albeit very, very slowly. I will also try to redshirt them and if this can be 'purchased' during recruiting, then that's an advantage.

it also depends on the team. a low WE guy could be very good already, and if you need a guy that can help fill that final piece of the puzzle, then maybe it would be good to grab him.

personal preference also matters - I hate how slowly they develop, so I tend to avoid them. But each recruiting cycle is different (meaning you might really need to fill a need and the best option is a low WE guy) and each team has a different peak time period so sometimes they are a necessary evil.

Posted by wvufan76 on 3/7/2017 1:48:00 PM (view original):
At D1 I hate taking a recruit below 25, will go lower on transfers because low WE usually means broken promises that will recover once he is playing minutes enough to make him happy. Winning at D1 is about growth, and no growth without WE.

At the lower divisions, "IF" the cores are acceptable I will go as low as it takes as long as the GPA is acceptable as well. GPA dictates the IQ growth, not WE.

What would be an "acceptable" GPA? 2.5ish? Is GPA the sole dictator of IQ growth?

Under 10 is going to have neglible gain
10~20 isn't going to max without a lot of play time and possible redshirt.
20-30 will generally max if they get playtime+rs but again won't hit that lp/per ++
30-40 will usually max everything unless they have a lot of blues, a super++ lp/per or you start them less than 2 seasons.
40+ will max almost all the time
70+ will max around ~2.5 seasons

So for examples

25 ath green
10 spd black
50 reb green
30 def green
45 sb blue
25 lp green
1 per red
10 bh black
12 pas blue
28 WE
63 sta black

he has nice pot if you project him out 53+ ath 17 spd 78+ reb 58+ def 65 sb 53+ lp 1 per 17 bh 32 pas 70 sta that is a solid D3 player however with 28 WE he is not going to max without a lot of playtime and his LP if it is 80+ pot will not max. As well as really his potentials not being good enough to consider putting the effort to max him which would be probably ~3 seasons of starting or 2+rs and his LP will still not max if ++ Personally at D3 I'd avoid a guy like this unless you are desperate or rebuilding and can afford to start a guy like this because those projections are solid PF but nothing special for a good team to waste playtime on early

Example 2
64 ath red
30 spd black
78 reb black
45 def green
63 sb orange
65 lp orange
10 per black
12 bh red
7 pas orange
32 WE
76 sta orange

Here is another low WE guy with much better starting cores and a lot less blue/green he projects nicely 64 ath 37 spd 85-98 reb 73+ def 67 sb 69 lp 17 per 12 bh 11 pas 80 sta which is probably in the very good tier and since he has pretty high starting ratings and his only "low" ratings with potential are 45 def green and I guess 78 black reb. Not to mention his offense is already maxed basically which is usually the longest to develop. With 32 WE this guy will max probably 2-3 seasons depending on playtime since he is developed already. I would recruit a guy like this with any of my D3 teams

3rd example
23 ath green
17 spd blue
27 reb green
32 def green
45 sb orange
28 lp green
14 per blue
8 bh green
27 pas red
84 WE
78 sta black

This is a very low guy with tons of potential and a high WE 51+ ath 37 spd 55+ reb 60+ def 49 sb 56+ lp 34 per 36+ bh 27 pas 85-98 sta however min prjections put him as an average/below average PF, he could surely be elite if those greens are ++ but otherwise you have a guy who is average athletisicm, solid speed below average reb average def and not a scoreer without ++ growth. This is a case where WE+Pot can trick you. Guy 2 with much lower WE and less green/blue is a better player for sure. Now this guy would most liekly max within 2 seasons and his LP if ++ would max ~3 seasons. I'd normally add this guy to my watchlist he wouldn't be a top target though unless I had a luxury pick and didn't neccesarrily need to land reb.

Example 4

46 ath green
8 ath blue
67 reb green
59 def blue
78 sb orange
52 lp green
10 per blue
12 bh green
23 pas red
76 WE
65 sta blue

Ask some cheerleaders to hook up with this guy. Elite potential and elite WE 74+ ath 38 spd 95+ reb 79 def 82 sb 80+ lp 30 per 40+ bh 23 pas 85 sta and he will max ~2.5 seasons You are generally going to see this guy get taken by D2 recruits though

idk if that helped but i ramble

I decided I will not take anyone less than 40 anymore. It is really frustrating to have a Sr. player still blue or green.

Posted by ghowell14 on 3/7/2017 1:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wvufan76 on 3/7/2017 1:48:00 PM (view original):
At D1 I hate taking a recruit below 25, will go lower on transfers because low WE usually means broken promises that will recover once he is playing minutes enough to make him happy. Winning at D1 is about growth, and no growth without WE.

At the lower divisions, "IF" the cores are acceptable I will go as low as it takes as long as the GPA is acceptable as well. GPA dictates the IQ growth, not WE.

What would be an "acceptable" GPA? 2.5ish? Is GPA the sole dictator of IQ growth?

GPA does affect IQ growth but in the end it doesn't matter too much if you put 20+ minutes everyone is gonna hit A and 24 almost everyone hits A+ besides the absolute worst GPA guys who are still A

The way IQ works is that you spend practice plan on it I do 24 each normally in my off/def. You practice and so each practice you are getting 24->48->72 and on and on

To hit B+ IQ generally when a player can start having a good impact(B with really good ratings) you need between 1100-1600 practice time (1100 for a higher GPA/we and 1600 for lower gpa/we) Which using 24 min is 45 practices for higher gpa/we and 66 practices for lower end we/gpa (now thats the extreme so 1100 is the asbsolute fastest anyone can hit B+ and 1600 is the absolute lowest. 34 practices ina season so the higher WE guys hit B+ midway through there 2nd season and the lower guys hit it at the very end But both hit B+ by the end of the 2nd season.

Now if you want to go A+ thats 2500-3500 points and 104 for fast guys and 145 for the slowest so ~3rd season for fast and the slowest will probably not get past A without a RS but again thats the extreme, 24 minutes for 4 seasons is 3264 which means even the slowest guys can hit A+ at the very end.

So honestly ignoring GPA is totally fine you can win titles without fretting about the GPA of your recruits. I don't even bother

Depends. Take a look at steffey on my NMSU team. Awesome starting numbers so the 6 WE doesn't matter all that much. Would be nice to have better WE but he's still real good.

bottomline- if his starting numbers are good, I'll take WE <10.

Posted by skinndogg on 3/7/2017 2:15:00 PM (view original):

I decided I will not take anyone less than 40 anymore. It is really frustrating to have a Sr. player still blue or green.

I don't care about that at all. I will take a blue 60 over a red 50 at graduation every day if the week.

I'll take anyone. WE = 1 means the guy will get worse, but if he starts good enough, he can be useful as a role player. Low WE is a killer flaw for guys with high potential and low initial ratings though.

I would urge against having an arbitrary cutoff - look at the guy and consider whether he can help you without improvement. One thing that can help is if a low WE guy already knows your offense and or defense. Otherwise, he will be slow to learn that too.

I agree that you shouldn't have an arbitrary cutoff. it all depends on your situation and the progress of your program. if you can afford to start the player, you can go a lot lower. if they know your off/def, you can go lower. if they're already a great player as is, you can go lower.

I'll take a 1 WE if his starting ratings are good enough (e.g 80s cores, ath, de for low DI)

I had a 1 WE guy once, but it was painful to watch him deteriorate over his career. LOL

I don't take anthing under 30 unless they are getting 3+ seasons of starting time and if they are around 20 WE they will be starting right away. Anything under 30 is going to be painful, redshirting will give very minimal gains so that won't even help.